List areas of Protestant disagreement?

[VociMike]

I’d like to come up with a list of areas where Protestants (actually, any non-Catholic and non-Orthodox who call themselves Christian) are in disagreement with one another. I’m looking for theological areas, not areas of practice (e.g. wine vs. grape juice).

Here’s a start at a list. Please add and/or correct. I’m not sure if all of these belong on this list – some may only be conflicts with the Catholic faith, in which case I don’t want to include them here. I have also included some things which no “traditional” Protestant might believe, but which people who consider themselves Christians might, such as Trinity vs. Oneness, so I’m looking for the broadest range of beliefs of all who call themselves Christian. Thanks.

-Efficacy of baptism, real or symbolic
-Infant baptism
-One baptism vs.multiple
-Real Presence in Eucharist
-Ministerial priesthood
-Confession to a priest (do any Protestants believe this?)
-Once Saved Always Saved
-The Rapture, etc (How many views on this subject?)
-Apostolic succesion
-Predestination vs. free will (some called vs. all called)
-Trinity vs. Oneness
-Divinity of Christ (do some who call themselves Christian deny this?)
-Sola Scriptura vs. other authorities (e.g. Councils)
-Veneration of Mary suitable
-Mary mother of God or just “the human part of Jesus”
-Prayer to saints
-Mortal vs. non-mortal sin

Please join in to help fill out this list.

 

[JimO]

Evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (praying in tongues)
Prophetic utterances and words of knowledge

 

[RonWI]

Is faith a gift, or something we choose to take. (Lutherans - gift.)

Literal acceptance of the Bible. (Lutherans - yes.)

Private confession. (Lutherans - yes.)

Is sanctification a gift or something that we achieve ourselves. (Lutherans - gift.)

The purpose of the liturgy. (Lutherans - to receive God’s gifts: Word and sacraments.)

Charismata. (Lutherans - very sceptical.)

Homosexuality. (Lutherans - No.)

Female pastors. (Lutherans - at least real ones - No.)

Abortion. (Lutherans - at least real ones - never.)

Consumption of alcohol. (Lutherans - cheers!)

 

[Timothy888]

RonWI:

Is faith a gift, or something we choose to take. (Lutherans - gift.)

Literal acceptance of the Bible. (Lutherans - yes.)

Private confession. (Lutherans - yes.)

Is sanctification a gift or something that we achieve ourselves. (Lutherans - gift.)

The purpose of the liturgy. (Lutherans - to receive God’s gifts: Word and sacraments.)

Charismata. (Lutherans - very sceptical.)

Homosexuality. (Lutherans - No.)

Female pastors. (Lutherans - at least real ones - No.)

Abortion. (Lutherans - at least real ones - never.)

Consumption of alcohol. (Lutherans - cheers!)

I can agree with this, except;
Alcohol. (depends if an alcoholic is near otherwise ok within reason, though this isn’t really a disagreement
Charismata. (test the spirit, if you’re accused of being judgemental or told you have a judgemental spirit, then keep well away, to test the spirit needs good judgement and the Holy Spirit, when this is not allowed, then there is something very wrong).This isn’t either really.
Umm by real Lutherian do you mean a Christian perchance?

 

[Timothy888]

JimO:

Evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (praying in tongues)
Prophetic utterances and words of knowledge

I don’t think there is a real disagreement, just vast misunderstandings brought about by people wanting others to experiance this to the extent of pushing others away, which isn’t Christian anyway.
Rather speak one word that is understood by all than a thousand maybe only one person understands, prophetic utterances have always been given in the language of the people it was delivered to.
I believe in this personally, but have witnessed many people who have been hurt for truely no reason, these people were in no way comforted by the person delivering the ‘accusation’ which was in no way true, it’s a matter of testing the spirit, does it speak the truth in love or not?
Is any form of spiritual violence used? then it is not of God.

 

[JimO]

Timothy888:

I don’t think there is a real disagreement, just vast misunderstandings brought about by people wanting others to experiance this to the extent of pushing others away, which isn’t Christian anyway.
Rather speak one word that is understood by all than a thousand maybe only one person understands, prophetic utterances have always been given in the language of the people it was delivered to.
I believe in this personally, but have witnessed many people who have been hurt for truely no reason, these people were in no way comforted by the person delivering the ‘accusation’ which was in no way true, it’s a matter of testing the spirit, does it speak the truth in love or not?
Is any form of spiritual violence used? then it is not of God.

I have no problem with the Charismatic gifts either, I simply misunderstood the thread subject. I thought we were listing things that Protestants disagreed with one another on.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Methodist

-Efficacy of baptism: Real
-Infant baptism: Yes
-One baptism vs.multiple: One
-Real Presence in Eucharist: Yes
-Ministerial priesthood: Apostolic in intention
-Confession to a priest: Confession is confidential (protected by church law and civil law), but not a sacrament
-Once Saved Always Saved: No.
-The Rapture: Not sure what your question is?
-Apostolic succesion: No.
-Predestination vs. free will: Free Will
-Trinity vs. Oneness: Trinity
-Divinity of Christ: Yes
-Sola Scriptura vs. other authorities (e.g. Councils): Primacy of scripture, Ecumenical Councils
-Veneration of Mary suitable: No.
-Mary mother of God or just “the human part of Jesus”: Mother of God (Jesus=God, homoousion)
-Prayer to saints: No… but belief in the Communion of the Saints (per Apostles’ Creed)
-Mortal vs. non-mortal sin: No delineation; sin is sin.

O+

 

[JimO]

O.S. Luke:

Methodist
–Real Presence in Eucharist: Yes

The Methodist teaching is consubstantiation rather than transubstantiation - is that correct?

 

[O.S.Luke]

JimO:

The Methodist teaching is consubstantiation rather than transubstantiation - is that correct?

Jim… we use neither term. The official stance:

The Christian church has struggled through the centuries to understand just how Christ is present in the Eucharist. Arguments and divisions have occurred over the matter. The Wesleyan tradition affirms the reality of Christ’s presence, although it does not claim to be able to explain it fully.

United Methodists, along with other Christian traditions, have tried to provide clear and faithful interpretations of Christ’s presence in the Holy Meal. Our tradition asserts the real, personal, living presence of Jesus Christ. For United Methodists, the Lord’s Supper is anchored in the life of the historical Jesus of Nazareth, but is not primarily a remembrance or memorial. We do not embrace the medieval doctrine of transubstantiation, although we do believe that the elements are essential tangible means through which God works. We understand the divine presence in temporal and relational terms. In the Holy Meal of the church, the past, present, and future of the living Christ come together by the power of the Holy Spirit so that we may receive and embody Jesus Christ as God’s saving gift for the whole world.

• from This Holy Mystery: A United Methodist Understanding of Holy Communion, adopted by the 2004 General Conference of The United Methodist Church as an official interpretive statement of theology and practice in The United Methodist Church. Full text is here.

O+

 

[Shibboleth]

was listening to a Christian program on the radio today and some supposed theologian was talking about Christian holidays and the supposed peganistic changes made by the Catholic Church. This was one of those bozos that up until the Passion of the Christ was fine with calling Jesus by the English name Jesus but now thinks that he has some unparalleled divine knowledge because he now calls the Christ by the Aramaic ‘Yesh-you-ah.” To top off the frustration he didn’t even put the emphasis on the correct syllable.

Furthermore, he felt the need to point out that the Greek word for Sabbath is “Sabbaton” - forgive me for not typing in Greek - anyway he once again put the emphasis on the wrong syllable which is horrifying considering the breathing marks tell you exactly what syllable to emphasize.

Anyways he tried to support his viewpoints by using scripture but he totally and completely and blatantly was abominably incorrect. I almost pulled over to the side of the road and lost my stomach. It is Protestants that employ Sola Scriptura like this that almost make me want to become a Papist - almost.

p.s. the word “Papist” was employed only to illustrate to what extent I was frustrated and was not used in a derogatory sense.

 

[scylla]

Shibboleth, that was the first time I’ve seen someone use “papist” and it was funny. Those guys on the radio, or on TBN drive me crazy too. I don’t get much radio out here in the desert, so sometimes I listen against my better judgment, or just out of sheer morbid curiosity\boredom as I drive.

Well here is my contribution, as I have experienced some extreme stuff, I am embarassed to post more than I have here.
I am not sure if these apply, there are more but some are pretty iffy,you can tell me what you think…

Immersion Baptism\ pouring water Baptism
Passing on of annointing, items(swords, etc) pass on annointing
Grace seed sowing ithing

 

[Kevin_Williams]

Since some of the diagreements are mentioned in the Nicene Creed, I guess we should list it too.

One baptism for the forgiveness of sins,
and the communion of saints.

 

[Axion]

I made this list of areas of disagreement between Sola Scriptura churches.

Should there be infant or Adult baptism?
Is our destiny governed by Calvinist Predestination or Arminian Free Will
Once Saved Always Saved?
Is there assurance of Salvation?
Can one lose Salvation?
Is Salvation a one-off event?
Does hell exist?
Can one be saved outside the Christian Church?
Should images be used in worship?
Does the Church replace Israel?
Is Divorce permissible
Is Abortion murder?
Is prophecy still given?
Are there still Miracles?
Are miracles guaranteed if you have enough faith?
Will there be a pre-trib Rapture?
Premillenialism or Postmillenialism?
Will there even be a millennium?
Speaking in Tongues - valid or deception?
Baptism in the Holy Spirit - is it real?
Are demons real?
What role do Works have in Salvation?
What is the Nature and Function of Sacraments?
Is Jesus physically present in Communion?
Are the Sacraments necessary to salvation?
What form of Authority should exist in the Church?
Does a minister need to be ordained?
What does ordination confer?
Can women be Pastors?
Can homosexuals be admitted to Church?
Does God promise Christians material prosperity?

 

[Timothy888]

Axion:

I made this list of areas of disagreement between Sola Scriptura churches.

Should there be infant or Adult baptism?
Is our destiny governed by Calvinist Predestination or Arminian Free Will
Once Saved Always Saved?
Is there assurance of Salvation?
Can one lose Salvation?
Is Salvation a one-off event?
Does hell exist?
Can one be saved outside the Christian Church?
Should images be used in worship?
Does the Church replace Israel?
Is Divorce permissible
Is Abortion murder?
Is prophecy still given?
Are there still Miracles?
Are miracles guaranteed if you have enough faith?
Will there be a pre-trib Rapture?
Premillenialism or Postmillenialism?
Will there even be a millennium?
Speaking in Tongues - valid or deception?
Baptism in the Holy Spirit - is it real?
Are demons real?
What role do Works have in Salvation?
What is the Nature and Function of Sacraments?
Is Jesus physically present in Communion?
Are the Sacraments necessary to salvation?
What form of Authority should exist in the Church?
Does a minister need to be ordained?
What does ordination confer?
Can women be Pastors?
Can homosexuals be admitted to Church?
Does God promise Christians material prosperity?

Yes that about covers all of 'em enough for anybody to get their teeth into anyway, though of course if everyone would read their Bible and not be egoistic then many of these wouldn’t be there.I suppose it all started with ‘should women cover their heads’ and went from there, this was no excuse to allow anything in the church though, this includes the Roman church. Tell me something, what good does it do to complain though? It doesn’t matter what Christ teaches you, somebody higher up in the organization always decides for you. A person like Paul today with 15 days training would never be allowed to do anything in nearly any church. The church wouldn’t accept a prophet that said what they didn’t want to hear. God always gives a chance, ignore it at your own risk.

 

[Shibboleth]

Red hymnal or Green hymnal? This argument has almost caused the burning down of many Lutheran Churches.

 

[MariaG]

posted by Shibboleth

Anyways he tried to support his viewpoints by using scripture but he totally and completely and blatantly was abominably incorrect. I almost pulled over to the side of the road and lost my stomach. It is Protestants that employ Sola Scriptura like this that almost make me want to become a Papist - almost.

p.s. the word “Papist” was employed only to illustrate to what extent I was frustrated and was not used in a derogatory sense.

posted by scylla

Shibboleth, that was the first time I’ve seen someone use “papist” and it was funny.

Me too! I had a mouthful of food that was almost spit all over my computer because I thought Wow! that must be bad for Shibboleth to think that!

I am glad you put in the ps for those not as familiar with you (or the difference between Sola Scriptura and Solo Scriptura ). For me, I completely understood the frustration oozing from your pores over that one. Sorry to laugh at your frustration, but it was funny the way you posted it!

God Bless,
Maria

 

[BobCatholic]

Actually, sola scripturists disagree on EVERYTHING - this is because Sola Scriptura is a doctrine of demons and the fruit of it is doctrinal relativism.

The only things they seem to AGREE on are:
The Catholic Church is wrong
There are 27 books in the New Testament.
The names of the books in the New Testament are: Matthew, Mark, …Revelation.

(and the odd part is: none of these three doctrines are in the Bible!)

 

[Zooey]

Shibboleth:

Red hymnal or Green hymnal? This argument has almost caused the burning down of many Lutheran Churches.

Methodist, too!! And let us never forget the all important questions of organ and piano vs. organ or piano.…;Choir robes with stoles vs choir robes without stoles

 

[Teelynn]

“Red or Green Hymnals, Organ or Piano,…ect,” I have been a Roman Catholic from birth. If you really look at scripture and what Jesus said, why are we trying to pick Him apart? DOES JESUS REALLY CARE? DOES HE CARE ABOUT THE RITUALS AND THE FORMALITIES?..Even my Pastor from the Pulpit who happens to be a Roman Catholic Priest has said on numerous occassions: “JESUS CHRIST IS THE BOTTOM LINE…YOUR PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH JESUS.” Sometimes I just have to cut through the junk.

Blessings,
Teelynn

 

[Zooey]

Teelynn, your pastor is a wise man. My own (UMC) pastor would without doubt agree. But here is the problem…It is less the real differences that divide us than the truly ridiculous…However, as you see, many of us rather enjoy laughing at our own, well, goofiness. (My grandmother always said that it is better to laugh than to cry).

I have been laughing more than a little over this subject…While people are making lists of real differences, I have been irresistibly reminded of some of the foolishness that does indeed–as Shibboleth remarked–lead to all kinds of problems.(I have not heard of anything substantive that has ever caused half the problems as when my church changed the color of the aisle carpets…)