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jorgem
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May I have a list of those rites that are considered Eastern Rites?
Read about them here, including statistics from the Vatican Annuario Pontifico:May I have a list of those rites that are considered Eastern Rites?
Indeed all native Christians in the Middle East face the same threats, and indeed it’s more than stressful, but why would that cause any Orthodox, whether EO or OO, to go knocking on Rome’s door?Has there been any renewed interest by Orthodox in the Middle East in reuniting with Rome? The plight of Christians in the Middle East is so dire, and looking to becoming even worse that I wondered if the stress of possible regional extinction might cause some thought of reuniting with Rome.
Rolltide has already answered both questions very nicely, so I won’t re-answer them. But I would just like to stress that they are 2 entirely different questions – Churches and Rites are not the same thing. (As it happens, there aren’t even the same number of them. There are 5 EC Rites, 22 EC Churches.)May I have a list of those rites that are considered Eastern Rites?
Not in many centuries.Has there been any renewed interest by Orthodox in the Middle East in reuniting with Rome?
This is a rather low view of the faith of those Christians, isn’t it? I am not from there, but I do belong to a native Middle Eastern church, and I have not found a stronger faith in God than among Christians of the Middle East. To look at these people and their circumstances as opportunities for your Pope to expand his flock is quite frankly incredibly insulting. The Orthodox Christians of the Middle East have their own popes and patriarchs, and have no need for Rome. What could Rome even do from hundreds of miles away, isolated from the lives of the Christians of the Middle East, not sharing their cultures, etc.? And most importantly, not sharing their faith? Uniting with Rome would be a disaster.The plight of Christians in the Middle East is so dire, and looking to becoming even worse that I wondered if the stress of possible regional extinction might cause some thought of reuniting with Rome.
I can think of one example that’s … well, not what you’re asking, but I’ll say it anyhow:Has there been any renewed interest by Orthodox in the Middle East in reuniting with Rome?
In 2008, Mar Bawai Soro of the Assyrian Church of the East and 1,000 families were received into full communion with the Chaldean Catholic Church from the Assyrian Church of the East.[17]
Not in many centuries.
This is a rather low view of the faith of those Christians, isn’t it? I am not from there, but I do belong to a native Middle Eastern church, and I have not found a stronger faith in God than among Christians of the Middle East. To look at these people and their circumstances as opportunities for your Pope to expand his flock is quite frankly incredibly insulting. The Orthodox Christians of the Middle East have their own popes and patriarchs, and have no need for Rome. What could Rome even do from hundreds of miles away, isolated from the lives of the Christians of the Middle East, not sharing their cultures, etc.? And most importantly, not sharing their faith? Uniting with Rome would be a disaster.
Perhaps (I can’t say anything for sure) Yeoman means somethings like: Some of them may have been intending (deep down inside) on knocking on Rome’s door, and dire circumstances might them say “Hey we’d best do it now.”Indeed all native Christians in the Middle East face the same threats, and indeed it’s more than stressful, but why would that cause any Orthodox, whether EO or OO, to go knocking on Rome’s door?![]()
I suppose that’s possible, but why do I doubt it?Perhaps (I can’t say anything for sure) Yeoman means somethings like: Some of them may have been intending (deep down inside) on knocking on Rome’s door, and dire circumstances might them say “Hey we’d best do it now.”
But having said that, as a Catholic I’d like to point out the Balamand Statement (see my new signature).
Is that supposed to be a more reasonable interpretation? Something tells me that when your neighbor is kidnapped by Islamic extremists and held for the equivalent of $15,000 ransom (in a country where the average yearly income is less than half that), or your cousin goes missing, or any of the other many terrible things that I have happened to people in my church, your first thought is not “Well that tears it…I’m leaving my church and going to Rome!” That’s insane. And the bombing of Siadat an-Najat Catholic Church in Baghdad shows that there is absolutely no difference in how Catholics in the Middle East are treated. Everybody is a target, and Rome can’t change that.Perhaps (I can’t say anything for sure) Yeoman means somethings like: Some of them may have been intending (deep down inside) on knocking on Rome’s door, and dire circumstances might them say “Hey we’d best do it now.”
Renewed? We’ve always been interested in union, and the terms hasn’t changed. I think relations today have become better that dialogue can finally take place without ending in anathemas.Has there been any renewed interest by Orthodox in the Middle East in reuniting with Rome? The plight of Christians in the Middle East is so dire, and looking to becoming even worse that I wondered if the stress of possible regional extinction might cause some thought of reuniting with Rome.
Perhaps “heightened” would have been a better choice of words as opposed to renewed.Renewed? We’ve always been interested in union, and the terms hasn’t changed. I think relations today have become better that dialogue can finally take place without ending in anathemas.
To add just a bit, I wouldn’t have conceived it as knocking on Rome’s door. Perhaps that’s part of the problem when this topic is discussed, as it tends to be viewed, I think, by some that way.Indeed all native Christians in the Middle East face the same threats, and indeed it’s more than stressful, but why would that cause any Orthodox, whether EO or OO, to go knocking on Rome’s door?![]()
Yeah, but that’s you and your fears on behalf of people who aren’t you, and who are you anyway? I don’t mean that in a rude way, I mean…if you’re not from the Middle East, or at least in a Middle Eastern church (so that you have constant exposure to the news from people who still go back there regularly, still have family there, etc.), you really have no basis for forming any kind of conclusion like that. This kind of ties in nicely with my other post about how joining Rome would be a disaster, since no Roman or other Westerner actually knows what the hell is going on in the Middle East. Heck, it is even a nice illustration of why your subsequent post (about the duplex) even shows that union with Rome is a stupid idea, at least if the reason behind it is supposed to be to “save” Middle Eastern Christianity, or slow its decline or whatever. In the Middle East proper, the Middle Eastern Christians (the ones you’re convinced will be completely gone in 7 years, despite the fact that basically all of them were Christian long before most Westerners were) are the ones who share most of the duplex, and the Latins are the tiny minority within the minority (and in many places, even their Eastern compatriots are also a tiny minority, e.g., Syria, Egypt, Libya, Iran where most of the Christians are Orthodox or otherwise not in union with Rome). So how exactly is it that uniting with Rome would offer any protection from anything, even if that were a worthwhile reason for joining with heretics in the first place (which it isn’t)? There are almost no Romans or Coptic Catholics in Egypt, for instance (over 90% of Egyptian Christians are Coptic Orthodox, and there are still at least about four times as many Copts in Egypt proper as there are in the diaspora today, even after the “revolution” – 8 to 12 million in Egypt vs. ~2 million in the worldwide diaspora).Right now, outside of Egypt, Lebanon and Israel, I can’t be too optimistic about there being a Church of any type in the Middle East by the end of the decade. It’s gone from a crisis, I fear, to being a terminal crisis. And things are looking increasingly bad in Egypt as well.
Not to burst any bubbles here, but let me make a comment. Frankly, I subscribe to that theory only insofar as the 1st Millennium reality is concerned. IOW, if “communion” meant the same as it did in those days, then yes. But of course the problem is that the term no longer means that at all. In particular, until such time as the unilateral actions of Rome including, and perhaps especially (as I’ve argued with our now-vanished brother mardukm so many times, Vatican I’s Pastor Aeternus, etc, are formally repudiated (I’ll settle for the Roman legal dance-around equivalent of “clarified”) there’s no chance of restoring that reality. IOW, without that action on Rome’s part, chickens will grow lips before any unity occurs. And, absent the restoration of the 1st Millennium reality, I, personally, am very happy to have the Orthodox, especially the OO & ACoE.One is the “tragedy of disunity”. Christians of all stripes complain about that, but the underlying thought vary quite a lot. Catholics (like you, me, and Malphono) tend to see it in terms of “All Christians should be in full communion with the Pope.” but hardly any other Christians see it that way.