list of infallible Papal statements

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Hey tester…
Now Joe370 when you say : Does your use of “protected from error” mean infallible or not?
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Tester, infallible means unerring, dependable as you know. With that said, do you think that the CC determined which writings were the inerrant Word of God, and that they gave us the list of books for Canon of Scripture? In other words, the table of contents?

Do you think that the Church founded by Jesus was and is, forever protected by God, from error? If so, then how, and which church?

We could provide you with every infallible statement from the CC but what would be the point? You certainly don’t believe them to be inerrant proclamations. Like I said: why would you accept that the bible is infallible considering the fact that the CC claims to have infallibly decided what should be in it and what should not be in it? After all, you do not believe that the Magisterium of the CC can infallibly discern truth so why believe that they infallibly discerned truth regarding the correct inclusion of books in the bible as well as the correct exclusion of books from the bible? :confused:

Please, like you said, just a direct answer. 👍
 
Originally Posted by campeador View Post
Tester, I read your link by R.C. Sproul. I think it’s a cop out. At least he admits, “The Bible does not have specific text that suggests that the Bible alone is our final authority in all matters of faith and practice”. But if Sola Scriptura is to believed wouldn’t it, by definition, be in Scripture?

Excellent point campeador. You should start a thread and ask that very question?
 
More on the meaning of the Doctrine of Infallibility:

Infallibility means freedom from error in teaching faith and morals to the universal Church.

IOW, the Holy Spirit protects the leader(s) of Christ’s Church from teaching error in matters of faith and morals and misleading the people of God. The source of the infallibility is the supernatural assistance of the Holy Spirit.

Christ gave this charism to the Apostles. Otherwise, one of them could have taught one thing and another something entirely opposite. It’s the way Christ made sure that His Truth would be with us ALWAYS. This charism has been handed down through the bishops, successors to the Apostles, who have always been protected from error in teaching faith and morals the same way the Apostles were (Jn 14:16-18, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7-15).

If the Catholic Church did not have this charism, I would still be an unbeliever. After all, the infallible Bible had to have come from an infallible Church. An effect cannot be greater than its cause.

Jim Dandy
 
Jim, that was the only thing that made any sense to me as a former non-Catholic, which is why I am a catholic today. If the Catholic Church did not have this charism, I would still be an unbeliever too. After all, like you said: the infallible Bible had to have come from an infallible Church and of course we all know the source of the CC’s infallibility, which is the Holy Spirit, Who protects the leader(s) of Christ’s Church from teaching error in matters of faith and morals and misleading the people of God. Like you said, the source of the infallibility is the supernatural assistance of the Holy Spirit. An effect cannot be greater than its cause. You should start a thread and put that logic in the form of a question. 👍
Jim_Dandy said:
More on the meaning of the Doctrine of Infallibility:

Infallibility means freedom from error in teaching faith and morals to the universal Church.

IOW, the Holy Spirit protects the leader(s) of Christ’s Church from teaching error in matters of faith and morals and misleading the people of God. The source of the infallibility is the supernatural assistance of the Holy Spirit.

Christ gave this charism to the Apostles. Otherwise, one of them could have taught one thing and another something entirely opposite. It’s the way Christ made sure that His Truth would be with us ALWAYS. This charism has been handed down through the bishops, successors to the Apostles, who have always been protected from error in teaching faith and morals the same way the Apostles were (Jn 14:16-18, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7-15).

If the Catholic Church did not have this charism, I would still be an unbeliever. After all, the infallible Bible had to have come from an infallible Church. An effect cannot be greater than its cause.

Jim Dandy
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Tester.

I read your list of pronouncements by various Popes over the centuries, and they all pertain to one question: Is the doctrine EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS (Outside the Church there is no salvation) infallible?

The answer is yes to each pronouncement.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church:
–quote–

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

Paragraph 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the [Second Vatican] Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessry for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicity asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. (underscore added)

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by his grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848 Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.

– end quote –

This has always been a doctrine of the Church, since the very beginning of Christianity 2,000 years ago.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, together with a search engine, can be found at many websites. Two are scborreomeo.org and vatican.va.

Jim Dandy
 
Tester, surely you must agree with Jim; do you???
Jim_Dandy said:
Tester.

I read your list of pronouncements by various Popes over the centuries, and they all pertain to one question: Is the doctrine EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS (Outside the Church there is no salvation) infallible?

The answer is yes to each pronouncement.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church:
–quote–

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

Paragraph 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the [Second Vatican] Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessry for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicity asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. (underscore added)

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by his grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience – those too may achieve eternal salvation.

848 Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men.

– end quote –

This has always been a doctrine of the Church, since the very beginning of Christianity 2,000 years ago.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, together with a search engine, can be found at many websites. Two are scborreomeo.org and vatican.va.

Jim Dandy
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