List of Liberal, Conservative Bishops

[banished]

Hey richard.

Im in cali, you talking about bishop brom in san diego?

God bless the Charismatics, they too are the salt of the church.

No, I am up in the Oakland Diocese. We have St. Margret Mary with a Latin Mass, High Mass on Sundays and Low Mass during weekday afternoons. Visit the web page.

Richard

 

[Traditional_Ang]

No, I am up in the Oakland Diocese. We have St. Margret Mary with a Latin Mass, High Mass on Sundays and Low Mass during weekday afternoons. Visit the web page.

Richard

Richard:

It sounds as if you’re doing pretty well with Mass selection.
I was a “visitor” a couple of years ago at a parish in Contra Costa County which had a problem with some “Liturgical Abuses”. I was actually amazed with the speed with which those abuses were remedied. I can’t go into detail, but it seemed that as soon as the Bishop Ordinary found out that he had a problem, and that it was considered to be a scandal, the problem was solved.

This is one reason I think it’s important for posters to show their cities/counties/dioceses in the “Location” of their self-Identification & why I’ve done so from Day One… It helps other posters to help in situations such as yours…

If your Bishop Ordinary attends a Mass you attend, see if you can talk to him and then either get an appointment so you can converse or find out how to do that from him. In the TAC, I’ve had some 30 - 45 min. long conversations with my Bishops & even had a couple of conversations with the Primate. Much of the information on TAC - Rome Talks posted at CAF comes from those conversations (with their permission).

When you finally do see him (for the appointment), just say what you’ve tried to say here. Remember, your Bishop’s first job is that of a “Shepherd of souls”. Again, If you need any ideas, P/M me.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

PS: I was thinking about the Charismatic Mass you used to attend your Bishop also sometimes attends…

 

[Traditional_Ang]

Michael,

Thanks for the advice. I will pin it up here at my computer as a reminder, but its hard to edify people who’s Jesus is hanging on a wall in a church. I was really suprised when I found out how some Catholics relate to Jesus. I had to put everything on hold until I learn more. The Protestants are easy to figure out, because they fellowship more. But, after a Latin Mass everyone exits quietly, and goes directly to thier vehicle.

Richard

Richard:

Fellowship after the Mass (also known as the “Coffee Hour”) is often referred to as “the Eighth Sacrament” by Anglicans – It’s almost MANDATORY. Imagine my surprise as I watched the people of a Roman Catholic Parish I had sung at clearing out a parking lot in less than 15 minutes! That was almost 30 years ago, and I still remember the way my jaw dropped down as I realized that these people had cleared a parking lot that had 500+ cars in it in 15 minutes - And that included leaving their pews, saying “Hi” to Father, walking to their cars, getting in their cars, starting their cars, etc…

And, They repeated this the very next week! and The Week after that, and so on! and, The same thing happened when I read at another parish a couple of years later!

We could have a thread on this and what could be done to solve the problem, because it is a real problem. People share HERE instead of in their parishes. People try to fit in HERE instead of in their parishes. and, In some cases, people get their support HERE instead of from their parishes.

So, I’m more than well-aware of what you’re talking about.

I once attended a TLM with a friend who regularly attended that TLM. After the Mass, he and his friends regularly went out to lunch after that Mass. This may be difficult, but see if there are groups that “congregate” after Mass and see if one of them will allow you to join the group. Another way to get included is to get involved (this is hard for me because of my disabilities) - The Catholic Church has Altar Servers/Acolytes, Lectors/Readers, Choirs/Schola Cantorum, the dreaded EMHE and USHERS (all within the Mass). and, The Church has The Knights of Columbus (when I was broke, I was the “utility knight” for a year - 25 years ago), CCD (It’s called something else now) & only God knows what else…

Regarding the “Jesus on the Cross” - I thought you listened to Fr. Corapi on EWTN!
We show Jesus on the Cross to remind us what our salvation cost us and where we belong if we want to be “Raised with Christ”. Or, As Fr. Corapi has repeatedly said in various sermons:
NO CROSS, NO CROWN
NO PAIN, NO GAIN
NO GOOD FRIDAY, NO EASTER SUNDAY
NO DEATH, NO RESURRECTION
NO COMBAT, NO GLORY
NO WAY AROUND IT!
Every time we see our Lord on that Cross, we should be reminded of that. Remember, The Apostle St. Paul said:
For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1 Cor. 1:22-25 ESV
And, This is What Isaiah said.
But he was wounded (pierced) for our transgressions;
He was crushed for our iniquities;
Upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
And with his stripes we are healed.
Isaiah 53:5 ESV
That’s why we show our Lord on the Cross - To remind us thick skulled Catholics what our Salvation cost our Lord, and so we should “Look on Him whom WE have pierced”.

Your Brother and Servant in Christ, Michael

 

[banished]

Richard:

It sounds as if you’re doing pretty well with Mass selection.
I was a “visitor” a couple of years ago at a parish in Contra Costa County which had a problem with some “Liturgical Abuses”. I was actually amazed with the speed with which those abuses were remedied. I can’t go into detail, but it seemed that as soon as the Bishop Ordinary found out that he had a problem, and that it was considered to be a scandal, the problem was solved.

This is one reason I think it’s important for posters to show their cities/counties/dioceses in the “Location” of their self-Identification & why I’ve done so from Day One… It helps other posters to help in situations such as yours…

If your Bishop Ordinary attends a Mass you attend, see if you can talk to him and then either get an appointment so you can converse or find out how to do that from him. In the TAC, I’ve had some 30 - 45 min. long conversations with my Bishops & even had a couple of conversations with the Primate. Much of the information on TAC - Rome Talks posted at CAF comes from those conversations (with their permission).

When you finally do see him (for the appointment), just say what you’ve tried to say here. Remember, your Bishop’s first job is that of a “Shepherd of souls”. Again, If you need any ideas, P/M me.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

PS: I was thinking about the Charismatic Mass you used to attend your Bishop also sometimes attends…

Hello Michael,

Thanks, you have been helping me a lot. Yes, there for a while I was at St Margaret Mary for Low Mass every weekday evening. But, that schedule finally got me into trouble. What happened was: After Mass the Spirit moved me towards the statue of their patron saint, Margaret Mary, and I became interested enough to do a little studying.

According to the information I got off the Internet, I was supposed to lay face down for an hour that Friday evening. Well, by coincidence the church was having a service for their seminarians, so when they saw me laying face down for an hour in front of the statue they thought that I was part of the seminarian service, where laying face down was acceptable.

Later when I posted my experience here on the forum (not knowing about the coincidence with the seminarians) all hell broke loose. Plus, the church didn’t want me to drag them into the argument, and complained to the forum staff about it. That Friday evening was when I got the boot. No big deal, because the mortification brought me closer to Jesus, andb a few half-baked Catholics giving me a hard time was like a flea on my arm.

We all have spiritual gifts, and mine in singing in the Spirit. I can sing along with the Gregorian Chant tune, and the Spirit puts the words in my mouth. My singing in the Spirit during High Mass is what really aggravated the Traditionalist here on the forum, so when they found out what a jerk I was laying face down in church, that was the last straw.

Richard

 

[banished]

Richard:

Fellowship after the Mass (also known as the “Coffee Hour”) is often referred to as “the Eighth Sacrament” by Anglicans – It’s almost MANDATORY. Imagine my surprise as I watched the people of a Roman Catholic Parish I had sung at clearing out a parking lot in less than 15 minutes! That was almost 30 years ago, and I still remember the way my jaw dropped down as I realized that these people had cleared a parking lot that had 500+ cars in it in 15 minutes - And that included leaving their pews, saying “Hi” to Father, walking to their cars, getting in their cars, starting their cars, etc…

And, They repeated this the very next week! and The Week after that, and so on! and, The same thing happened when I read at another parish a couple of years later!

We could have a thread on this and what could be done to solve the problem, because it is a real problem. People share HERE instead of in their parishes. People try to fit in HERE instead of in their parishes. and, In some cases, people get their support HERE instead of from their parishes.

So, I’m more than well-aware of what you’re talking about.

I once attended a TLM with a friend who regularly attended that TLM. After the Mass, he and his friends regularly went out to lunch after that Mass. This may be difficult, but see if there are groups that “congregate” after Mass and see if one of them will allow you to join the group. Another way to get included is to get involved (this is hard for me because of my disabilities) - The Catholic Church has Altar Servers/Acolytes, Lectors/Readers, Choirs/Schola Cantorum, the dreaded EMHE and USHERS (all within the Mass). and, The Church has The Knights of Columbus (when I was broke, I was the “utility knight” for a year - 25 years ago), CCD (It’s called something else now) & only God knows what else…

Regarding the “Jesus on the Cross” - I thought you listened to Fr. Corapi on EWTN!
We show Jesus on the Cross to remind us what our salvation cost us and where we belong if we want to be “Raised with Christ”. Or, As Fr. Corapi has repeatedly said in various sermons:
NO CROSS, NO CROWN
NO PAIN, NO GAIN
NO GOOD FRIDAY, NO EASTER SUNDAY
NO DEATH, NO RESURRECTION
NO COMBAT, NO GLORY
NO WAY AROUND IT!
Every time we see our Lord on that Cross, we should be reminded of that. Remember, The Apostle St. Paul said:
For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1 Cor. 1:22-25 ESV
And, This is What Isaiah said.
But he was wounded (pierced) for our transgressions;
He was crushed for our iniquities;
Upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
And with his stripes we are healed.
Isaiah 53:5 ESV
That’s why we show our Lord on the Cross - To remind us thick skulled Catholics what our Salvation cost our Lord, and so we should “Look on Him whom WE have pierced”.

Your Brother and Servant in Christ, Michael

Michael,

You misunderstood me. I wasn’t talking about Jesus on the Cross. My Gosh! It was just another potty-mouth expression that I picked up from the Protestants. What they mean when they use that expression is that the person doesn’t show any evidence of being born again,b or giving his life to Christ. In other words, the person only fills his obligation and then leaves his Jesus hanging there on the wall of the church. There are quite a few ex-Catholics out there in the Protestant churches who are still protesting, and here I am trying to get back in. In spite of all their friendliness, there is something about the Protestant Communion that just doesn’t satisfy me. (grape juice in a tiny paper cup)

When it comes to having a Catholic Starbucks and a Christian Fellowship hour after Mass, the prerequisite, in my opinion, would be to have a born-again congregation. There would have to be a complete change of heart, rather than just filling their required obligation.

Richard

 

[OhMalley]

Mahoney in LA upsets me so much that I refuse to give $ @ mass anymore, almost never go to mass anymore. I have visited a Carmelite traditional Church, and have spoken to SSPX by telephone as my local churches and my former “catholic” university are infected by god-less humanism, environmentalism and homosexuality.

And all people like you do is empower people like Cardinal Mahony. Just look at your posting! You come across as exteme – and not in a good way.

What’s your zip code? I’ll recommend a good parish near you.

 

[JaMc]

I wouldn’t lump Brown in with Mahoney. Granted I haven’t had a lot of direct experience of his teachings in my short 3 years in Orange diocese, but I just don’t hear the kind of horror stories here that I have about L.A. diocese, or other places on threads in this forum. Also, the Tridentine Mass has been allowed to start flourishing here and that must count for something.

 

[RosaMystica]

Maybe the OP’s question might be stated: “Which of the bishops are most likely to give the Holy Father a headache, which ones most likely bring him a smile of appreciation, and which ones does he have some difficulty in remembering that they exist, and why?” That’s easier to consider than labels, and perhaps easier to talk about charitably and without judgment, as those who are a burr under the saddle of the Holy See may not mind at all to be seen as such.

I love your post!! What a clear way of expressing something we’ve all probably thought!

One way of identifying which Bishops put a smile on the Holy Father’s face would be to read some of the powerful statements released about the scandal at Notre Dame University. One way to identify the “burr under the saddle” type might be to check into who is delaying the new missal translations with multiple objections. Another way to gauge (if the bishop has been in the diocese for a while) is to look at vocation statistics. When I am traveling, I can always tell I’m in the diocese of a good strong bishop if there is adoration and marian devotion in the parishes, if EMC’s are called EMC’s and not Eucharistic Ministers, and if the diocesan and parish websites have links to organizations like EWTN and Catholic.com. Hope this helps!

 

[elts1956]

I would say that all of us are liberal in some ways and conservative in others: be it in politics or in matters of faith.

To put it another way, ALL members of the Church are cafeteria Catholics. There are writers, spiritual practices, devotions, and such that appeal to some people and not to others. The very existence of the half-dozen different liturgical familes called “rites” illustrates this.

Regarding Abp Weakland, he must have something spiritually going for him, or he never would have been Abbot President of the Benedictines, nor would the Holy Spirit have led the Pope to name him bishop.

This should tell you what God really thinks about gay peope.

I think your perception of Cafeteria Catholics is skewed. Cafeteria Catholics are those professing to be Catholic, but are only catholic. They refuse to follow the core teachings and many of the doctrines of the Church. They pick and choose which to agree with and follow and leave the hard choices by the roadside.;

 

[Neil_Anthony]

It would be fun to have a list and also include their age and years to retirement. Then we could graph the progressive/traditional split today, and forecast it for the future.

 

[Spiritoftruth]

…by who’s definition???

 

[peary2]

When former Archbishop of Milwaukee Rembert Weakland recently came out as gay, many people’s sentiments on here were, “That’s not a surprise” or “Who didn’t know that already?”

Well, since I’m new to the Church, I didn’t I don’t have the background yet to know which bishops are notoriously liberal, or which ones are conservative, etc. So in a charitable manner, how do some of our bishops fall politically?

Archbishop Weakland was very permissive when it came to “bending the rules” of the Church, and he was always in the pocket of nonconformist clergy and laity. It used to drive our parish priest nuts! Weakland seemed to have chosen to ignore the needs of the average traditional Catholic person and allow the others to ride roughshod over them. And as long as he gave in to the demands and desires of the noncomformists, he was beloved.

Politics should have no bearing in Church teaching in the sense that cardinals, bishops, priests and all laity in one form or another should be working for the spiritual needs of their people and for justice in society - but justice as outlined by the Church and not according to a secular society. Making your bed with the devil does not create justice; it just results in bad offspring.

 

[StevenFrancis]

• Was the Bishop in question engaging in homosexual behaviour?
• If yes…then I have no further questions…he is in a state of grave sin and we should all pray for him.
• If no…(and I’m hoping this is the answer since he is a priest, and priests are called to celibacy regardless of their private thoughts) then where is his sin?

Exactly. What does a priest or bishop even mean when they say they are “gay”? I can only pray and hope that what they mean is: “I struggle against the temptations to break my chastity which occur in me due to same sex attraction.”

Having said that, I am skeptical about any person who uses the word “gay” as a self-descriptor. Because unlike the “same sex attraction”, which can be acted on or resisted, just as any other disordered attraction by prayer, fasting, and reconciliation, “gay” to my ears implies a giving in and and acceptance of a particular life style and a way of living out life which seeks to remove the cross which comes with same sex attraction. Some will say it’s just short hand. A common term, but with people I’ve met, it appears to be a huge distinction. When someone tells me they struggle with same sex attraction, it sounds like someone trying their best to pick up their cross and follow Jesus daily. When someone says “gay”, they generally SEEM to almost always mean they are living and acting out a lifestyle which definitely includes homosexual sex acts. So if I hear that a Bishop has come out as “gay”, rather than coming out as a person who struggles with same sex attraction, try as I might, it is difficult for me to imagine that they are not indulging in homosexual sex acts, and looking to the culture to justify this, without repentance. Do I have this screwed up? Does the term “gay” now, in fact, include those who remain celibate and abstain from sex outside of hetero-sexual marriage, while undergoing the cross and test of same sex attraction? It’s something I really need to know. It doesn’t escape me that I am out of touch with modern, let alone post-modern idiomatic speech quirks.

 

[TimothyH]

Exactly.

Stephen, you are replying to a seven year old post. People have long since moved on.

 

[StevenFrancis]

Stephen, you are replying to a seven year old post. People have long since moved on.

I was doing a search for threads on liberal/conservative Bishops. This came up. I didn’t look at the OP date. Sorry. But, hmmm, do think people have really “moved on”? Seems to me this issue is being discussed as much as ever in the Catholic media. Anyway…thanks for the heads up.

Steve

 

[OraLabora]

I was doing a search for threads on liberal/conservative Bishops. This came up. I didn’t look at the OP date. Sorry. But, hmmm, do think people have really “moved on”? Seems to me this issue is being discussed as much as ever in the Catholic media. Anyway…thanks for the heads up.

Steve

Many of the posters on the thread are now banned. Forum rules request that we don’t resurrect old threads but start a new one instead.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

Many of the posters on the thread are now banned. Forum rules request that we don’t resurrect old threads but start a new one instead.

In addition to which no good can come out of trying to brand rosters of bishops by such arbitrary labels.