List of the Most Latinised Eastern Catholic Churches

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Elvis_George

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Shlama to all!
Now don’t get me wrong but, I would say this would be the list of the most latinised Eastern Catholic Church to the least latinised Eastern Catholic Churches. (If anyone has different opinions, you can state that ofc!)
  1. Maronite Catholic Church
    2.Syro Malabar Catholic Church
    2.Chaldean Catholic Church (tie)
    3. Syriac Catholic Church
    4.Coptic Catholic Church
    5.Armenian Catholic Church
    6.Ethiopian and Eritrean Catholic Churches
    7.Syro Malankara Catholic Church
    7.Byzantine Catholic Church (too numerous to state 😅) (tie)
    Again I don’t think this is accurate but I do want to know your thoughts on this list
 
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I would argue that the Melkite church, at least the Melkite church I sometimes go to, is no more latinised than some of the Orthodox churches. I’m not saying there’s none at all, but I will say that you will legitimately hear the congregation after Divine Liturgy complain about other churches that have become too Latin. Ruthenian Byzantine and Ukrainian Greek Catholic seem to be common targets, and I’ve been to a Ruthenian Byzantine Church, it was a little bit but not hugely. I know this is all just in good fun.
 
Agreed @DeniseNY!

@Elvis_George, as a former Byzantine Catholic I understand the frustration and difficulties of restoring authentic Eastern Traditions to the parish. There is progress, albeit slow progress in some places, but progress none the less.

I’m guessing lifelong Eastern Catholics will have some issues with this topic.

ZP
 
We need to fix the issue. If there is no intititaive, nothing will happen! This is whats happening ing the Syro Malabar church. Not much people care about our oriental traditions and sometimes replace them with latin traditions
 
It’s painful to see the first 4 churches you mention are all of the Syriac tradition. Perhaps we’re Latinized because in times past our tradition was so heavily suspected of embracing heresy. Would that we would embrace our theological, spiritual, and liturgical patrimony as Vatican II and popes all the way back to Leo XIII have been calling us to.
 
The Byzantine Catholic Churches are actually good when it comes to this
 
Happily I know of a good number of folks within the Maronite tradition who are actively working to restore our authentic patrimony.
 
I can’t speak for Middle Eastern Eastern Catholic but we St.Thomas Christians had our libraraies burned and theology ridiculed in the Synod of Diamper. We lost everything. We were forced to be Latin Catholic. We were already Chaldean Catholic but the Portuguese wanted us to be Latin Catholic.
 
For us Maronites, it was in large part the Crusaders. Many of our ancient liturgical books were burned and we had the Roman Canon forced on us (albeit in a Syriac translation).
 
Thank God! In the Syro Malabar church we don’t as much of an initiative but there is respect for them!
Directory of Christian Songs - Index This website preserves centuries worth of East Syriac chants. It is very interesting and I would encourage you to explore it.
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
For us Maronites, it was in large part the Crusaders. Many of our ancient liturgical books were burned and we had the Roman Canon forced on us (albeit in a Syriac translation).
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Plus the missionaries that burned our patriarchal library, and what they didn’t burn they seized and, as you say, replaced with something that was more satisfactorily “Catholic” to them. This is why to this day we don’t know what a truly authentic Maronite liturgy really looks like.

I get the forced latinizations, there was no choice. What I don’t understand is what we have done (and continue to do) to ourselves, in blatant disregard of VII. The sycophancy in imitating all things Roman in our church is regrettable.
Phillip_Rolfes said:
Happily I know of a good number of folks within the Maronite tradition who are actively working to restore our authentic patrimony.
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Sadly, the old guard that made any progress with this is fading away. And they have been replaced with the revisionist types. If you haven’t spoken to him lately, our mutual Deacon friend has been really discouraged and unhappy. He says things are starting to move backwards again.
 
Thanks for reminding me, @XXI_4. I’ve been meaning to reach out to him.

You hit the nail on the head in terms of the Maronite problem, however. Because of the fact that our books and libraries were destroyed by Crusaders and “missionaries,” we really have no idea what an authentic Maronite tradition in general (and liturgy in particular) looks like. There’s a sense in which we (meaning our leadership and scholarly experts) are just making it up and taking their best educated guess.
 
Speaking from my own experience, the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh has already been working on renewal and revitalization.

I still don’t see the point of ranking churches in this way, but to each his own.
 
Elvis_George said:
If anyone has different opinions, you can state that ofc
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I’d say (and I’m Maronite so I’m biased) that the Syro Malabars are above the Maronites, and perhaps the Chaldeans as well. It could very well be a 3-way tie.

I also disagree with lumping the Byzantines together. The UGCC should be way up there on the list, their practices may not be so heavily latinized, but their theology (from what I have seen) seems to be.

I suspect Melkites are the least latinized of all.

To be fair, I don’t have extensive exposure to many of these other Eastern Churches, so take this with a grain of salt.

I agree with @DeniseNY, I don’t see the purpose of this discussion (lol I say AFTER I have participated in it…).
 
But doesn’t the Maronite church use the ad populum for the whole Divine Liturgy? We use Ad Populum for 1 half and Ad orientam for the other half of the Qurbana so that’s why I put Maronite first.
 
Elvis_George said:
But doesn’t the Maronite church use the ad populum for the whole Divine Liturgy? We use Ad Populum for 1 half and Ad orientam for the other half of the Qurbana so that’s why I put Maronite first.
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I will see your ad orientem, and raise you married clergy. 😉

Now not to get technical, because I know it doesn’t really apply here, but Maronite clergy traditionally faced true East, not liturgical East. So if a church was built into a mountain and situated so that the priest had to face the congregation to face true East (which did happen, although how much I don’t know) then they would face the congregation. That said, yes, generally speaking, our liturgies are all done versus populum. You will find a few who do AO though.
 
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