LISTEN to the citizens of the developing countries!

[FengYi]

For those of you who don’t know, Melinda Gates (wife of the wealthiest man in the world & a self-proclaimed practicing Catholic) is funding a multi-billion contraceptive-abortificient project with the UN and EU.

What they don’t seem to realize is that the citizens would rather see the money go towards causes like education or health care.

cultureoflifeafrica.org/Open_Letter_English.html

lifesitenews.com/news/dehumanizing-and-insulting-kenya-bishops-slam-melinda-gates-contraception-p

 

[LisaA]

I believe Mrs. Gates claims to be Catholic. However it’s the typical Leftist elitsm that Nanny Melinda knows best for the great unwashed masses in Third World countries. It’s one of the most disgusting yet ignored forms of biogotry. Since Mrs. Gates apparently ascribes to the Margaret Sanger meme of preventing “human weeds” (read minorities, the poor) from cluttering the landscape.

Honestly I believe that Mrs Gates is well intentioned as she paves the road to hell with Gates Foundation dollars. But as CS Lewis said, those who promulgate evil out of “good” intentions are far worse than those who are simply and overtly evil. It’s much harder to fight such individuals who are doing it “for their own good” than those who mow down citizens in the street.

I only wish her heart could be turned and her vast resources could be used for good and not evil. There are so many organizations in Third World countries that are paying for hospitals and schools and teachers and doctors rather than birth control and abortion.

Lisa

 

[SuperLuigi]

I believe Mrs. Gates claims to be Catholic. However it’s the typical Leftist elitsm that Nanny Melinda knows best for the great unwashed masses in Third World countries. It’s one of the most disgusting yet ignored forms of biogotry. Since Mrs. Gates apparently ascribes to the Margaret Sanger meme of preventing “human weeds” (read minorities, the poor) from cluttering the landscape.

Honestly I believe that Mrs Gates is well intentioned as she paves the road to hell with Gates Foundation dollars. But as CS Lewis said, those who promulgate evil out of “good” intentions are far worse than those who are simply and overtly evil. It’s much harder to fight such individuals who are doing it “for their own good” than those who mow down citizens in the street.

I only wish her heart could be turned and her vast resources could be used for good and not evil. There are so many organizations in Third World countries that are paying for hospitals and schools and teachers and doctors rather than birth control and abortion.

Lisa

:clapping:

 

[DrTaffy]

It’s one of the most disgusting yet ignored forms of biogotry.

Are those not rather strong and judgemental words for someone who is only spending her money as she wishes. She is not forcing anyone to use contraception.

Or is the Catholic Church guilty of equally ‘disgusting’ bigotry by spending money on things like Catholic Schools or opposing same sex marriages?

 

[LisaA]

Are those not rather strong and judgemental words for someone who is only spending her money as she wishes. She is not forcing anyone to use contraception.

Or is the Catholic Church guilty of equally ‘disgusting’ bigotry by spending money on things like Catholic Schools or opposing same sex marriages?

Since you are a “none” I can understand your ignorance about Catholic teaching. Spending money on Catholic schools or opposing same sex “marriage” are both based on the Church’s underlying mission of saving souls.

Although you are new to CAF you are very obvious in your objectives and your philosophy. Please consult Catholic teaching about the reasons that those of the same sex cannot marry. You may not agree, not being Catholic, but perhaps you will gain an understanding of this teaching. Catholicism is not only amazingly logical but internally consistent, thus strenghtening the Church’s arguments against actions and relationships that neither uphold the dignity of the human person nor promote life from conception until natural death.

As to the “soft biogtry of low expectations” this wasn’t directly specifically toward Mrs Gates. She is absolutely free to spend her money as she pleases and further I appreciate that at least she is trying to help people even though her “help” is neither what the people want nor most need according to them, not according to me. However it’s sadly all too true that those who purport to “help” others often give them no credit for being capable of running their own lives.

Lisa

 

[DrTaffy]

Since you are a “none” I can understand your ignorance about Catholic teaching.

You mean that you are assuming that I am ignorant of Catholic teaching

Spending money on Catholic schools or opposing same sex “marriage” are both based on the Church’s underlying mission of saving souls.

As Ms Gates’ spending is based on her mission. Do you really not see the parallel?

Although you are new to CAF you are very obvious in your objectives and your philosophy.

You are very obvious in assuming that you know everything about me. You have yet to demonstrate any actual understanding, as opposed to judgement, of me.

Please consult Catholic teaching about the reasons that those of the same sex cannot marry.

Why else would I be here, other than to clarify my understnding of Catholic beliefs?

 

[LisaA]

You mean that you are assuming that I am ignorant of Catholic teaching

As Ms Gates’ spending is based on her mission. Do you really not see the parallel?

You are very obvious in assuming that you know everything about me. You have yet to demonstrate any actual understanding, as opposed to judgement, of me.

Why else would I be here, other than to clarify my understnding of Catholic beliefs?

By claiming that Catholic schools or opposition to same sex “marriage” is bigoted, you demonstrate an ignorance of Catholic teaching.

Mrs Gates mission is apparently to prevent the birth of children through artificial birth control and abortion. Apparently she believes in the Margaret Sanger philosophy that some people do not deserve life. That the people being served would prefer medical care and education doesn’t seem to matter to her. Again I wish her heart could be turned to compassion instead of utilitarianism.

As to what I know about you, it’s simply a response to your online personae. You appear to be a homosexualist and anti-Catholic in philosophy. You don’t appear to have knowledge or understanding, much less agreement with Catholic teaching. If I am wrong it’s because what you say gives me the above impression. I’ve been on the forum a long time and I’ve seen a lot of people come on under the mistaken impression they can convince Catholics of the error of their ways. Hasn’t worked before but you are welcome to continue to try

Lisa

 

[DrTaffy]

By claiming that Catholic schools or opposition to same sex “marriage” is bigoted, you demonstrate an ignorance of Catholic teaching.

No, I claimed no such thing. That was just mirroring your rather uncharitable judgement of Mrs Gates, pointing out how the same logic applied to you would lead to that conclusion.

Indeed while neither Mrs Gates nor Catholic Schools are forcing anything on anyone, the Church’s opposition to same sex marriage is explicitly forcing your definition of marriage on others who do not share your beliefs, so is if anything a much more justified example of bigotry.

You appear to be a homosexualist and anti-Catholic in philosophy. You don’t appear to have knowledge or understanding, much less agreement with Catholic teaching. If I am wrong it’s because what you say gives me the above impression. I’ve been on the forum a long time and I’ve seen a lot of people come on under the mistaken impression they can convince Catholics of the error of their ways. Hasn’t worked before but you are welcome to continue to try

Yet again you are leaping to judge me, and indeed Mrs Gates.

And no, I have zero expectations of changing anyone’s mind on the internet, at least not on any subject where they already have formed solid opinions.

My goal here is to clarify my understanding of Catholic beliefs, which does involve challenging those parts that seem not to make sense to me. On which front your contribution here is not catholicisms finest hour. Reread your posts here - you have called Mrs Gates and myself various nasty names, made sweeping unsupported judgements about what we believe or are trying to do, told me that it is my fault if you have been uncharitable to me, but have not once even tried to explain or justify Catholic beliefs. This only reinforces all the worst stereotypes of Catholics.

I don’t think this conversation is going anywhere positive, so I think we should call a halt.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

For those of you who don’t know, Melinda Gates (wife of the wealthiest man in the world & a self-proclaimed practicing Catholic) is funding a multi-billion contraceptive-abortificient project with the UN and EU.

What they don’t seem to realize is that the citizens would rather see the money go towards causes like education or health care.

The activities of the foundation in health are, according to the foundations site, in the areas of

• Vaccination Delivery
• Tuberculosis
• Polio
• Pneumonia
• Neglected Infectious Diseases
• Malaria
• HIV
• Enteric and Diarrheal Diseases
• Discovery & Translational Sciences

Their other work specific to the continent of Africa is in agriculture, financial services for the poor, and(what seems to be the central theme of this thread)family planning. In public interviews last year(which is about the same time that the articles listed by the OP were posted) .

According to the foundation up to a quarter of the girls that attend school drop out due to pregnancy. If this is true than preventing pregnancies in young girls may have some impact on education levels achieved.

If it gives any indication of what she is thinking, I recall an interview that Melinda did on the Colbert Report. The interview was some what colored by the political arguments of the time. I typed up a transcript below leaving out the references to a Super PAC and anonymous political donations.
Colbert Report:

Colbert:

You have a new hobby horse that you’re on. It’s not so much saving people’s lives as much as it is stopping people’s lives from existing. You want to provide family planning for 120 million men and women around the world. Why, what good does that do?

Melinda Gates:

Well what we know is if you give people options and you let women decide when and if they want to have a child they will actually space the births of their children and they will tell you when you talk to them in these countries is then I can feed my children and I can get my children on a path to getting them educated and guess what? Our family can become self sufficient. And ultimately they get off of aid and they build healthy communities and healthy families. It’s really incredible.

Colbert:

It’s a wildly controversial stance. From the culture wars in the United States you know if you’re in favor of contraception you are automatically a slut. Arn’t you afriad that the bill and the melinda gates foundation will be thought of as a slut factory? It is controversial.

Melinda Gates:

We made it controversial in the US and it doesn’t need to be. 90% of americans say they find contraception morally acceptable. But because we made it controversial it has come off the global health agenda. So it means 200 million women that want access to contraceptives, things that we use in the USA, they don’t have them. And guess what? Women die if they can’t space their births if they have children too close together or if they are too young when they have a child.That shouldn’t happen in this day and age

Colbert:

Here’s one of the problems with your initiative. You and I are both Catholic. How can you put your soul in mortal parol by going against the church?

Melinda Gates:

One of the things to understand is how much we in the Catholic church have alike. The social justice mission of the Catholic Church is really incredible, they way they serve the poor around the world. And so I think what the Catholic Church wants space to do is make sure that women know about lots of methods. The rhythm method is they one that they actually preach in many places around the world. That’s okay that’s one method. I think we should let women choose that or choose a modern method. As long as we do both I think we can continue to work together

Colbert:

What about abstinence. It’s very cost effective. Because it cost nothing, and it’s not effective. So it’s very equal. How are you going to get this done. How much money do you guys need.

Melinda Gates:

Well, we’re going to have a very large family planning

summit in the UK, July 11th. And we’re going to raise 4 billion dollars* [At this point a banner reading “http://no-controversy.com”]http://no-controversy.com” displays on the bottom of the screen] from both donor nations and developing nations putting skin in the game saying this is going to be on the agenda, we are going to get lots of contraceptives out to the families.

Colbert:

But if this succeeds, and if you got contraceptives to every one and it’s a roaring success isn’t there the danger there won’t be poor people and you’ll have nothing to do?

Melinda Gates:

I look forward to that day. And I think one of the great things that we’re finding out about aid and foreign assistance is when you get people on a path to sustainability they will lift themselves up. If you give them the right tool they are able to get on this new trajectory in life. That’s why we’re seeing this emerging middle class in Africa. Africa is completely different than when I traveled there 10 years ago. And I see the hope that’s coming there and I want to make sure we are a part of giving people what they need to lift them selves up

source:colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/415947/june-27-2012/melinda-gates

• • actual donations exceeded goal.For a list of the donors and the amounts they contributed see here (PDF)

 

[LisaA]

The activities of the foundation in health are, according to the foundations site, in the areas of

• Vaccination Delivery
• Tuberculosis
• Polio
• Pneumonia
• Neglected Infectious Diseases
• Malaria
• HIV
• Enteric and Diarrheal Diseases
• Discovery & Translational Sciences

Their other work specific to the continent of Africa is in agriculture, financial services for the poor, and(what seems to be the central theme of this thread)family planning. In public interviews last year(which is about the same time that the articles listed by the OP were posted) .

According to the foundation up to a quarter of the girls that attend school drop out due to pregnancy. If this is true than preventing pregnancies in young girls may have some impact on education levels achieved.

If it gives any indication of what she is thinking, I recall an interview that Melinda did on the Colbert Report.

The rhythm method is they one that they actually preach in many places around the world. That’s okay that’s one method. I think we should let women choose that or choose a modern method. As long as we do both I think we can continue to work together

The vast majority of the mission is pro-life in that it helps sustain life and health. Certainly the Gates Foundation is to be commended in that effort. However note the bolded portion above. Mrs. Gates is sadly mistaken if she thinks anyone is “preaching the rhythm method” as a family planning tool. It makes NFP sound both ineffective and unacceptable. Culturally though I don’t know if even NFP would be practiced. But that isn’t a reason to pretend there isn’t an alternative to ABC. Further the side effects and detriments of ABC are also likely to be ignored.

That being said, I am impressed with Colbert’s line of questioning even if Mrs Gates answers were not in line with Catholic Social Teaching. No one is judging her soul but as Catholics we can speak out regarding the issue of life.

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

No, I claimed no such thing. That was just mirroring your rather uncharitable judgement of Mrs Gates, pointing out how the same logic applied to you would lead to that conclusion.

Indeed while neither Mrs Gates nor Catholic Schools are forcing anything on anyone, the Church’s opposition to same sex marriage is explicitly forcing your definition of marriage on others who do not share your beliefs, so is if anything a much more justified example of bigotry.

Yet again you are leaping to judge me, and indeed Mrs Gates.

And no, I have zero expectations of changing anyone’s mind on the internet, at least not on any subject where they already have formed solid opinions.

My goal here is to clarify my understanding of Catholic beliefs, which does involve challenging those parts that seem not to make sense to me. On which front your contribution here is not catholicisms finest hour. Reread your posts here - you have called Mrs Gates and myself various nasty names, made sweeping unsupported judgements about what we believe or are trying to do, told me that it is my fault if you have been uncharitable to me, but have not once even tried to explain or justify Catholic beliefs. This only reinforces all the worst stereotypes of Catholics.

I don’t think this conversation is going anywhere positive, so I think we should call a halt.

If you were sincerely interested in Catholicism you would avail yourself of authoritative sources, not get into arguments on a discussion forum. You apparently do not understand why ABC (artificial birth control) is prohibited. You have said as much. THus for me to state you don’t understand this teaching is somehow uncharitable? I suggest it’s a way to shut down the discussion because you were ‘busted.’

You make the error of misunderstanding judgment as well. We don’t judge souls, we do judge actions and words. Mrs Gates’ actions of promoting ABC and abortion is an action against Catholic teaching. Her soul’s state is between her and God. But that doesn’t mean someone, including Colbert in the subsequent interview, from questioning the conflict between her actions (providing ABC/abortion) and Catholic teaching.

As to continuing to learn, go to the forum’s website homepage and there are links to excellent explanations of Catholicism. You might find the sections on homosexuality…aka Same Sex Attraction and the Consistent Life Ethic quite enlightening.

Lisa

 

[DrTaffy]

If you were sincerely interested in Catholicism…]

I am taking the rather paradoxical action of responding to clarify that I am not going to respond . On re-reading my earlier post was too equivocal.

By “I think we should call a halt” I meant that I am calling a halt. I have (obviously) read your last post and will read any replies, but will not respond further. If anything that last post only confirmed to me that neither of us will gain anything from continuing this discussion.

 

[LisaA]

I am taking the rather paradoxical action of responding to clarify that I am not going to respond . On re-reading my earlier post was too equivocal.

By “I think we should call a halt” I meant that I am calling a halt. I have (obviously) read your last post and will read any replies, but will not respond further. If anything that last post only confirmed to me that neither of us will gain anything from continuing this discussion.

Ah but you see it’s not about you, or about me. It’s about anyone else who might read the discussion. It’s not as if we have a private email exchange where one of us can unilaterally end the discussion. Anyone who reads the posts is also involved. We learn by reading as well as writing. If you’ve been on the fora a while, you’ll see that often others chime into such exchanges.

Lisa

 

[St_Francis]

The vast majority of the mission is pro-life in that it helps sustain life and health. Certainly the Gates Foundation is to be commended in that effort. However note the bolded portion above. Mrs. Gates is sadly mistaken if she thinks anyone is “preaching the rhythm method” as a family planning tool. It makes NFP sound both ineffective and unacceptable. Culturally though I don’t know if even NFP would be practiced. But that isn’t a reason to pretend there isn’t an alternative to ABC. Further the side effects and detriments of ABC are also likely to be ignored.

What I see is that as articifcial birth control gains ground, so do STDs, including HIV. The most successful HIV-reduction program in Africa has been Uganda’s ABC–Abstain, Be faithful, use a Condom. It would be interesting to also find out the “side-effects” of this program: whether child-bearing reduced among students? whether other STDs were reduced? etc.

I also see that Mrs Gates is still using the old “rythym method” terminology–that is like a reverse bait-and-switch and in this particular case, it should have been out in the 1980s.

That being said, I am impressed with Colbert’s line of questioning even if Mrs Gates answers were not in line with Catholic Social Teaching. No one is judging her soul but as Catholics we can speak out regarding the issue of life.

Lisa

I am impressed with the way he challenges Catholics, tho I wonder if his comment about “cost effective” birth control are accurate? That would be disappointing.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

I am impressed with the way he challenges Catholics, tho I wonder if his comment about “cost effective” birth control are accurate? That would be disappointing.

His comment the cost effectiveness of abstinence was a joke. This may not be apparent unless you hear him asking it (see the video link). I’m not sure if it is more representational of his own view or that of his writers.

 

[LisaA]

What I see is that as articifcial birth control gains ground, so do STDs, including HIV. The most successful HIV-reduction program in Africa has been Uganda’s ABC–Abstain, Be faithful, use a Condom. It would be interesting to also find out the “side-effects” of this program: whether child-bearing reduced among students? whether other STDs were reduced? etc.

I also see that Mrs Gates is still using the old “rythym method” terminology–that is like a reverse bait-and-switch and in this particular case, it should have been out in the 1980s.

I am impressed with the way he challenges Catholics, tho I wonder if his comment about “cost effective” birth control are accurate? That would be disappointing.

I don’t think we are in disagreement. I do think the Gates Foundation should be commended on its outreach to the poor and for many of its areas of focus (health care, clean water, education). I would far prefer to see a wealthy couple like Bill and Melinda Gates involved in charitable endeavors in contrast to what we often see in the media…conspicuous consuption raised to an art form…the Kardashian approach to wealth…

That being said, we can’t keep silent about the evils of promoting a culture of death, the potential health effects of using chemical birth control products which range from increased STDs to cancer to changing the dynamic in the male female relationships.

BTW I also pointed out the comment about the rhythmn method which really demonstrated a lack of understanding about natural family planning as well as the benefits of abstinence. The spread of HIV in Africa is tied to the LACK of fidelity in relationships and the cultural issues of multiple wives, marrying the dead brother’s wife and thus spreading these diseases around.

Amazing how the Church’s approach is better for health and happiness AND more important the health of the soul. I wish Mrs Gates would explore her faith and become more in synch with the Church’s teaching. It would certainly be a greater blessing to the world and better use of the foundation’s wealth.
Lisa

 

[St_Francis]

I don’t think we are in disagreement.

I totally agree with you; I just put that badly

I do think the Gates Foundation should be commended on its outreach to the poor and for many of its areas of focus (health care, clean water, education). I would far prefer to see a wealthy couple like Bill and Melinda Gates involved in charitable endeavors in contrast to what we often see in the media…conspicuous consuption raised to an art form…the Kardashian approach to wealth…

That being said, we can’t keep silent about the evils of promoting a culture of death, the potential health effects of using chemical birth control products which range from increased STDs to cancer to changing the dynamic in the male female relationships.

BTW I also pointed out the comment about the rhythmn method which really demonstrated a lack of understanding about natural family planning as well as the benefits of abstinence. The spread of HIV in Africa is tied to the LACK of fidelity in relationships and the cultural issues of multiple wives, marrying the dead brother’s wife and thus spreading these diseases around.

Amazing how the Church’s approach is better for health and happiness AND more important the health of the soul. I wish Mrs Gates would explore her faith and become more in synch with the Church’s teaching. It would certainly be a greater blessing to the world and better use of the foundation’s wealth.
Lisa

It certainly is!

 

[J_Peterson]

I think it’s cultural imperialism. Instead of reducing hunger they are trying to reduce the hungry. It’s a logical position but not moral. I could never bring myself to tell each member of a large family suffereing from poverty and hunger that if they were not born or if they made “better choices” the world would be a better place. Population control is an evil concept. I’m sure the Gates do plenty of good but I can’t get past this part of it. It’s not rooted in love, only materialism. I wouldn’t give a penny to them, besides they have enough money.

 

[LisaA]

**I think it’s cultural imperialism. Instead of reducing hunger they are trying to reduce the hungry. **It’s a logical position but not moral. I could never bring myself to tell each member of a large family suffereing from poverty and hunger that if they were not born or if they made “better choices” the world would be a better place. Population control is an evil concept. I’m sure the Gates do plenty of good but I can’t get past this part of it. It’s not rooted in love, only materialism. I wouldn’t give a penny to them, besides they have enough money.

Wow that is a brilliant observation. It’s in keeping with what I think has been called the utilitarian approach to humanity.

Lisa

 

[J_Peterson]

Wow that is a brilliant observation. It’s in keeping with what I think has been called the utilitarian approach to humanity.

Lisa

Thanks, but I stole it from somewhere else. There was an article I read this weekend about the popes program to help eliminate hunger and there was a quote that used similar wording. I will also be stealing “utilitarian approach to humanity”