Litany of the Saints?

[Don9of11]

Does anyone know if you are allowed to shorten the list of saints / exclude some?

 

[laszlo]

Does anyone know if you are allowed to shorten the list of saints / exclude some?

It depends on the intention and context.

If one skips saints because he believes that they are not worthy for honor, that is certainly sinful.

In other hand the Hungarians always added St Stephen King, St Ladislaus King, St Emmerich prince, St Elisabeth Queen, St Margarete princess to the list, so local lists are allowed.

 

[Don9of11]

During choir practice the choir was asked to do the Litany for Easter Vigil, but that we might shorten the list because it takes too long. I am new to the parish and the choir and shortening the list seems sinful and ridiculous.

 

[Digitonomy]

During choir practice the choir was asked to do the Litany for Easter Vigil, but that we might shorten the list because it takes too long. I am new to the parish and the choir and shortening the list seems sinful and ridiculous.

Sinful? Sin of course requires full knowledge that the action is truly wrong. If the choir director or priest or whoever gave the instruction thinks that the list itself can be variable, and is shortening it to contribute to a less tedious and more fulfilling Easter Vigil, that would certainly not be sinful. However, that doesn’t make it proper. My hunch is that you can’t just willy-nilly delete lesser Saints from the litany, but it may be permitted to add saints of local importance. But such a decision should be based on more than a hunch.

 

[Tepeyac]

The litany for the Easter Vigil is printed in the missal. The missal deosn’t say anything about omitting saints, and none of the saints are printed within brackets (which often means something can be skipped). It does say that additional saints can be added, like the patrons saints of the church or city, or the patron saints of those being baptized, etc.

So as far as I can tell it would be wrong to drop any of the saints printed in the missal but you wouldn’t have to add any more saints beyond that. So if they want to keep the vigil of the short side, they need to look for other means (like the priest’s homily ).

 

[929dad]

I don’t have any rubric to quote to support my thought, but…

Asking the Saints to intercede for us is a really good thing. Adding, for example, the patron of the parish, patron of those to be baptized, etc., seems like a laudable practice. As a musician, I would also say that the short trope (the saint’s name) makes it quite easy to add to the litany.

Finally, it isn’t possible for us to have too many people praying for us. I would think we would *want * those in heaven bringing our prayers right to the Throne of God.

 

[Digitonomy]

Asking the Saints to intercede for us is a really good thing. Adding, for example, the patron of the parish, patron of those to be baptized, etc., seems like a laudable practice…

Finally, it isn’t possible for us to have too many people praying for us. I would think we would *want * those in heaven bringing our prayers right to the Throne of God.

In that case, why limit ourselves to such a paltry list? Expand the litany to a few thousand saints! I’m not sure how appropriate it would be to go this quickly, but if we keep up a good pace of one saint every 5 seconds, we could knock off 2000 in a little over 2.5 hours.

 

[929dad]

Clearly, it wasn’t my point that we should pray for the intercession of every single saint. That part is covered with the trope, “All holy men and women…” My point was that since that list isn’t exhaustive and no one has cited any rubric regarding the litany, that the addition or substitution of a few saints is allowed.

Moreover, you don’t refute my points at all, you merely take things to an unnatural and unpractical extreme. Why is it not acceptable to ask a particular saint to intercede for us with God as part of the litany?

 

[Tepeyac]

no one has cited any rubric regarding the litany, that the addition or substitution of a few saints is allowed.

That’s not exactly true. I cited the missal above. I wrote:

The litany for the Easter Vigil is printed in the missal. The missal deosn’t say anything about omitting saints, and none of the saints are printed within brackets (which often means something can be skipped). It does say that additional saints can be added, like the patrons saints of the church or city, or the patron saints of those being baptized, etc.

Here are the exact rubrics for the Litany at the Easter Vigil from the Missal (The Sacramentary, Catholic Book Publishing Corp., N.Y. 1985 )

1. The litany is sung by two cantors. All present stand ( as is customary during the Easter season ) and answer.

If there is to be a procession of some length to the baptistery, the litany is sung during the procession. In this case those who are to be baptized are first called forward. Then the procession begins: the Easter candle is carried first, followed by the candidates with their godparents, and the priest with the ministers. The above instruction is given before the blessing of the water.

1. I fthere is no one to be baptized and the font is not to be blessed the litany is omitted, and the blessing of water ( no. 45 ) takes place at once.
2. In the litany some names of saints may be added, especially the titular of the church, the local patrons, or the saints of those to be baptized.

The Litany then follows these rubrics.

They allow the adding of saints’ names to the Litany but they don’t allow the dropping of saints’ names from the Litany, as printed in the Missal.

I checked online to see if there might be any changes in the 3rd edition of the Missal (which is the basis of the new translation this fall). According to this page from the U.S. bishop’s website, it does look like the rubrics for the Litany remain the same:

Those who are to be baptized, along with their godparents, are led first by a minister with the Easter candle; the other ministers, deacons and priest follow after them. This procession is accompanied by the singing of the Litany of the Saints. The priest then gives the introductory statement.

If the Baptisms take place in the sanctuary, the priest makes the introductory statement and this is followed by the singing of the Litany of the Saints.

When there are no Baptisms and the font is not to be blessed, the litany is omitted and the blessing of water takes place at once (EV, nos. 39-41).

 

[Digitonomy]

Clearly, it wasn’t my point that we should pray for the intercession of every single saint. That part is covered with the trope, “All holy men and women…” My point was that since that list isn’t exhaustive and no one has cited any rubric regarding the litany, that the addition or substitution of a few saints is allowed.

Moreover, you don’t refute my points at all, you merely take things to an unnatural and unpractical extreme. Why is it not acceptable to ask a particular saint to intercede for us with God as part of the litany?

Clearly it is acceptable, and I suggested that it was probably acceptable to add saints of local importance. However, since the thread is about deleting saints from the litany, I interpreted your post as finding fault with anyone who might think shortening the litany to be reasonable. I hoped that laying out the extreme would illustrate why some may find the current litany to be at the upper end of what is reasonable.

But as for the factual answer to the OP, I think Tepeyac explained it well.

 

[Digitonomy]

Clearly, it wasn’t my point that we should pray for the intercession of every single saint. That part is covered with the trope, “All holy men and women…” My point was that since that list isn’t exhaustive and no one has cited any rubric regarding the litany, that the addition or substitution of a few saints is allowed.

Moreover, you don’t refute my points at all, you merely take things to an unnatural and unpractical extreme. Why is it not acceptable to ask a particular saint to intercede for us with God as part of the litany?

 

[Don9of11]

Thanks everyone I contacted the Office for Worship in the Cleveland Diocese and after some clarification this is there response.

During choir rehearsal Tuesday evening it was requested that during the Easter Vigil the choir or a choir member would chant the Litany of Saints but that we would shorten the list so as not to take too long. Is this allowed?

*The Rite of Baptism for Children indicates a shorter Litany of the Saints may be used and this may be where the request is coming from. Neither the Sacramentary, nor the RCIA, indicate that a shortening of the list of saints is possible.

If the parish has people to be baptized at the Easter Vigil then the Litany of the Saints as it appears in the Sacramentary is to be sung. If there are no baptisms then the Litany of Saints is not sung.

Singing the entire Litany of the Saints will not extend the Vigil by any significant length of time as there are only 25 saints plus 17 other invocations.

Christina

Director,
Office for Worship
Diocese of Cleveland
1404 East 9th St. - 6th Floor
Cleveland, OH 44114
*