Literal Interpretation of Genesis?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Don_Machiavelli
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Don_Machiavelli

Guest
Just wondering a few things about the degree of creationism that is believed by members on this board:

How many here…

…believe that it is 100% factually incorrect that humans evolved from any kind of apelike creatures (neanderthals, cro-magnons, etc…)?

…believe the earth is only 5000 years old?

…believe that dinosaurs never existed and the fossils were created by God to test one’s faith?

…believe Adam and Eve were two literal people made out of clay and a rib, from which all humans have sprang?

…believe that the world was literally created in seven 24 hour periods?

I am not trying to start any kind of flame war here, or judge anybody, but I am wondering if anyone here believes the things that I have posted.
 
Hi, Don.

I certainly can’t speak for all Catholics, but the Church doesn’t view the Genesis creation account as a literal history and believes that the truths about our universe revealed by science are not incompatible with the tenets of faith. Obviously some of our Christian brethren outside of the Church feel differently and take a very literalist view, but this is a surprisingly recent development (which came to prominence in the 1800’s).

Genesis expresses certain truths – that God created the world, that there were two first humans named Adam and Eve, that we fell into sin and retain our sinful nature today, etc. – but the literal history of those truths likely doesn’t align with the allegorical story, which was meant to make a point not to be a science manual.

If God created the universe with a big bang, let the earth form and develop over eons, then eventually imbued two sufficiently evolved apes with a human soul, then those first humans sinned and fell short of their duty to God, and so on … that ‘disproves’ Genesis as a literal history, but doesn’t make it any less ‘true.’

Interestingly, scientific study of the human genome is beginning to lead many scientists to believe that humanity evolved out of a very small community of our predecessor species, possibly even from two individuals, which would lend credence to the Genesis account (read allegorically) that we all spring from two original humans.

God bless you.
 
What a good explanation, Scott! Well done!

To add a small note: Catholics have no problem believing in evolution, for one thing. It is compatible with our (broad) understanding of G-d’s creation “process”.

To which we must admit: we do not KNOW how the world was created or life began. I don’t believe anyone could be so arrogant as to say so. Only G-d knows, and He hasn’t given us all the answers yet.
 
Hi, Don.

I certainly can’t speak for all Catholics, but the Church doesn’t view the Genesis creation account as a literal history and believes that the truths about our universe revealed by science are not incompatible with the tenets of faith. Obviously some of our Christian brethren outside of the Church feel differently and take a very literalist view, but this is a surprisingly recent development (which came to prominence in the 1800’s).

Genesis expresses certain truths – that God created the world, that there were two first humans named Adam and Eve, that we fell into sin and retain our sinful nature today, etc. – but the literal history of those truths likely doesn’t align with the allegorical story, which was meant to make a point not to be a science manual.

If God created the universe with a big bang, let the earth form and develop over eons, then eventually imbued two sufficiently evolved apes with a human soul, then those first humans sinned and fell short of their duty to God, and so on … that ‘disproves’ Genesis as a literal history, but doesn’t make it any less ‘true.’

Interestingly, scientific study of the human genome is beginning to lead many scientists to believe that humanity evolved out of a very small community of our predecessor species, possibly even from two individuals, which would lend credence to the Genesis account (read allegorically) that we all spring from two original humans.

God bless you.
Interesting. I get very frustrated with Catholic friends of mine (even more with Protestant) who take the Book of Genesis completely literally. I mean no disrespect to anyone, but to take it literally in this day and age seems so farfetched.
 
“in this day and age” means what? Take Neanderthals. The conventional view for a long time was that they never interbred with humans. Turns out they did.

sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100506141549.htm

"Real History

"The argument is that all of this is real history, it is simply ordered topically rather than chronologically, and the ancient audience of Genesis, it is argued, would have understood it as such.

"Even if Genesis 1 records God’s work in a topical fashion, it still records God’s work—things God really did.

"The Catechism explains that “Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine ‘work,’ concluded by the ‘rest’ of the seventh day” (CCC 337), but “nothing exists that does not owe its existence to God the Creator. The world began when God’s word drew it out of nothingness; all existent beings, all of nature, and all human history is rooted in this primordial event, the very genesis by which the world was constituted and time begun” (CCC 338).

"It is impossible to dismiss the events of Genesis 1 as a mere legend. They are accounts of real history, even if they are told in a style of historical writing that Westerners do not typically use.

"Adam and Eve: Real People

"It is equally impermissible to dismiss the story of Adam and Eve and the fall (Gen. 2–3) as a fiction. A question often raised in this context is whether the human race descended from an original pair of two human beings (a teaching known as monogenism) or a pool of early human couples (a teaching known as polygenism).

"In this regard, Pope Pius XII stated: “When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains either that after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parents of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now, it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the teaching authority of the Church proposed with regard to original sin which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam in which through generation is passed onto all and is in everyone as his own” (Humani Generis 37).

“The story of the creation and fall of man is a true one, even if not written entirely according to modern literary techniques. The Catechism states, “The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man. Revelation gives us the certainty of faith that the whole of human history is marked by the original fault freely committed by our first parents” (CCC 390).”

Too often, I see a strange idea posted here: God selected two ‘almost humans’ and dropped souls into them. Can anyone provide the science that verifies this idea?

Finally, there is the strange idea that God simply switched the machinery of life on and it did whatever it wanted. Strange because the Church teaches that God is a causal agent in the development of life in the universe. The Biology textbook, on its own, does not contain the complete answer. Yet there are those who claim that blind, random forces led to primitive life all the way up to man.

Peace,
Ed
 
I’d like to add this quote from Arcanum by Pope Leo XIII:

“5. Still, the purpose We have set before Us is not to recount, in detail, benefits of this kind; Our wish is rather to speak about that family union of which marriage is the beginning and the foundation. The true origin of marriage, venerable brothers, is well known to all. Though revilers of the Christian faith refuse to acknowledge the never-interrupted doctrine of the Church on this subject, and have long striven to destroy the testimony of all nations and of all times, they have nevertheless failed not only to quench the powerful light of truth, but even to lessen it. We record what is to all known, and cannot be doubted by any, that God, on the sixth day of creation, having made man from the slime of the earth, and having breathed into his face the breath of life, gave him a companion, whom He miraculously took from the side of Adam when he was locked in sleep.” February 1880.

That’s what I was taught and believe. God can and does intervene.

Peace,
Ed
 
Hi, Don.

I certainly can’t speak for all Catholics, but the Church doesn’t view the Genesis creation account as a literal history and believes that the truths about our universe revealed by science are not incompatible with the tenets of faith. Obviously some of our Christian brethren outside of the Church feel differently and take a very literalist view, but this is a surprisingly recent development (which came to prominence in the 1800’s).

Genesis expresses certain truths – that God created the world, that there were two first humans named Adam and Eve, that we fell into sin and retain our sinful nature today, etc. – but the literal history of those truths likely doesn’t align with the allegorical story, which was meant to make a point not to be a science manual.

If God created the universe with a big bang, let the earth form and develop over eons, then eventually imbued two sufficiently evolved apes with a human soul, then those first humans sinned and fell short of their duty to God, and so on … that ‘disproves’ Genesis as a literal history, but doesn’t make it any less ‘true.’

Interestingly, scientific study of the human genome is beginning to lead many scientists to believe that humanity evolved out of a very small community of our predecessor species, possibly even from two individuals, which would lend credence to the Genesis account (read allegorically) that we all spring from two original humans.

God bless you.
A most excellent and pragmatic analysis my friend, quite logical, and conducive to important scientific advances, sorely needed in today’s whacko world of money worship and credit default swaps.

I truly do hope the CC has the same well reasoned outlook you’ve expressed so well.

Respectfully,

jomoco
 
Hi, Don.

I certainly can’t speak for all Catholics, but the Church doesn’t view the Genesis creation account as a literal history…

…but the literal history of those truths likely doesn’t align with the allegorical story, which was meant to make a point not to be a science manual.
Food for thought. The Church teaches that the events of Genesis are “literally” history, but events spoken in symbolic language. The genre is history, not fiction, legend, or allegory. This language does not apply to the whole story though. Adam and Eve were not symbolic of a community.

Concerning the Historical Character of the First Three Chapters of Genesis
June 30, 1909 (AAS 1 [1909] 567ff; EB 332ff; Dz 2121ff)

I: Do the various exegetical systems excogitated and defended under the guise of science to exclude the literal historical sense of the first three chapters of Genesis rest on a solid foundation?
Answer: In the negative.


II: Notwithstanding the historical character and form of Genesis, the special connection of the first three chapters with one another and with the following chapters, the manifold testimonies of the Scriptures both of the Old and of the New Testaments, the almost unanimous opinion of the holy Fathers and the traditional view which the people of Israel also has handed on and the Church has always held, may it be taught that: the aforesaid three chapters of Genesis Contain not accounts of actual events, accounts, that is, which correspond to objective reality and historical truth, but, either fables derived from the mythologies and cosmogonies of ancient peoples and accommodated by the sacred writer to monotheistic doctrine after the expurgation of any polytheistic error; or allegories and symbols without any foundation in objective reality proposed under the form of history to inculcate religious and philosophical truths; or finally legends in part historical and in part fictitious freely composed with a view to instruction and edification?
Answer: In the negative to both parts.

III: In particular may the literal historical sense be called in doubt in the case of facts narrated in the same chapters which touch the foundations of the Christian religion: as are, among others, the creation of all things by God in the beginning of time; the special creation of man; the formation of the first woman from the first man; the unity of the human race; the original felicity of our first parents in the state of justice, integrity, and immortality; the command given by God to man to test his obedience; the transgression of the divine command at the instigation of the devil under the form of a serpent; the degradation of our first parents from that primeval state of innocence; and the promise of a future Redeemer?
Answer: In the negative.

IV: In the interpretation of those passages in these chapters which the Fathers and Doctors understood in different manners without proposing anything certain and definite, is it lawful, without prejudice to the judgement of the Church and with attention to the analogy of faith, to follow and defend the opinion that commends itself to each one?
Answer: In the affirmative.

V: Must each and every word and phrase occurring in the aforesaid chapters always and necessarily be understood in its literal sense, so that it is never lawful to deviate from it, even when it appears obvious that the diction is employed in an applied sense, either metaphorical or anthropomorphical, and either reason forbids the retention or necessity imposes the abandonment of the literal sense?
Answer: In the negative.

VI: Provided that the literal and historical sense is presupposed, may certain passages in the same chapters, in the light of the example of the holy Fathers and of the Church itself, be wisely and profitably interpreted in an allegorical and prophetic sense?
Answer: In the affirmative.

VII: As it was not the mind of the sacred author in the composition of the first chapter of Genesis to give scientific teaching about the internal Constitution of visible things and the entire order of creation, but rather to communicate to his people a popular notion in accord with the current speech of the time and suited to the understanding and capacity of men, must the exactness of scientific language be always meticulously sought for in the interpretation of these matters?
Answer: In the negative.

VIII : In the designation and distinction of the six days mentioned in the first chapter of Genesis may the word Yom (day) be taken either in the literal sense for the natural day or in an applied sense for a certain space of time, and may this question be the subject of free discussion among exegetes?
Answer: In the affirmative.

These are official Magisterium teachings that have never been rescinded by the Magisterium.

Pax Christi.
 
Very well documented, and quite precise, shocktrooper and edwest2. The question seems to be over the use of the word “literal”. Maybe that should be discussed at more length.

My thought (and belief) would be that the events in Genesis are all true, but that some of the language (as documented by you two and Scott) is different than is used in today’s science. While completely true, and necessary for us to believe in G-d’s plan for us and our salvation, Genesis is perhaps not as precise and “completely defined” as were it a scientific paper published today…the use of the word “day”, for example, before the sun and moon were made, must be better thought of as “G-d’s day”, rather than our human thought of 24 hours.

Does that make some sense out of what you have found?

Peace.
 
Just wondering a few things about the degree of creationism that is believed by members on this board:

How many here…

…believe that it is 100% factually incorrect that humans evolved from any kind of apelike creatures (neanderthals, cro-magnons, etc…)?Yes, I believe it is “factually” incorrect. The theory of evolution is just that-a theory and it is incompatible with the Bible telling us that we are made in the image and likeness of God. You can have two computer programs that are 99.9% composed of the same code but the last 0.1% makes them two separate programs.

…believe the earth is only 5000 years old? Since God didn’t create the sun until the fourth day, Genesis is clearly talking about God’s time not ordinal earth time. So I do not believe the earth is 5000 years old

…believe that dinosaurs never existed and the fossils were created by God to test one’s faith?

…believe Adam and Eve were two literal people made out of clay and a rib, from which all humans have sprang?Yes, I believe this. If you don’t believe it, can you tell me how the very first human got here?

…believe that the world was literally created in seven 24 hour periods? It certainly could have because God is capable of doing anything He wants; however, Jesus and St. Peter both tell us in the Bible that God’s time is not human time and a day in heaven is like 10,000 years here on Earth. That makes total sense to me because our time is measured by how long the Earth takes to revolve around the sun. Since heaven isn’t here, time would be different in heaven.

I am not trying to start any kind of flame war here, or judge anybody, but I am wondering if anyone here believes the things that I have posted.
 
Since heaven isn’t here, time would be different in heaven.
Just for the record, there is no time in heaven. A day being like a 1000 years is allegorical, or symbolic. God is outside of time. It does not mean that a "24 hr. day) is actually a 1000 years to God.

Pax Christi.
 
Very well documented, and quite precise, shocktrooper and edwest2. The question seems to be over the use of the word “literal”. Maybe that should be discussed at more length.

My thought (and belief) would be that the events in Genesis are all true, but that some of the language (as documented by you two and Scott) is different than is used in today’s science. While completely true, and necessary for us to believe in G-d’s plan for us and our salvation, Genesis is perhaps not as precise and “completely defined” as were it a scientific paper published today…the use of the word “day”, for example, before the sun and moon were made, must be better thought of as “G-d’s day”, rather than our human thought of 24 hours.

Does that make some sense out of what you have found?

Peace.
JamestheOlder,

I personally see the Church making some very clear guidelines for us to follow. The Church does allow for both a 24 hour day interpretation and a symbolic one. The Church does not allow for us to venture into polygenism since it would destroy the doctrine of Original Sin and the clear testament of the Church Fathers. The Church teaches that Adam and Ever are real people that really fell from God’s grace. Satan is real and really tempted them in the form of a serpent.

Note also that the Church teaches the special creation of woman FROM MAN. This in my mind removes evolution as a TRUTH, since I must give my assent of faith to the Church and not science.

The key here is to see Genesis as HISTORY, not a genre of fiction or myth with history in it.

No, it is HISTORY that uses symbolic language. Modernists like to switch it around and say it is MYTH that has real events (history) in it. This is a twist on words that distorts what the Church actually teaches.
 
Just wondering a few things about the degree of creationism that is believed by members on this board:

How many here…

…believe that it is 100% factually incorrect that humans evolved from any kind of apelike creatures (neanderthals, cro-magnons, etc…)?

…believe the earth is only 5000 years old?

…believe that dinosaurs never existed and the fossils were created by God to test one’s faith?

…believe Adam and Eve were two literal people made out of clay and a rib, from which all humans have sprang?

…believe that the world was literally created in seven 24 hour periods?

I am not trying to start any kind of flame war here, or judge anybody, but I am wondering if anyone here believes the things that I have posted.
There are Catholics who do believe the all things you have listed above, there Catholics who don’t believe any of the things you have listed above, and there are many shades of grey in between.

I personally don’t know any Catholics who are particularly bothered by the age of the earth and the actual length of creative days. Maybe there are some, I just don’t know any. However, the big problem for some Catholics is polygeneism because in their view, it contravenes the Church’s teaching on original sin. As I understand it Catholics who have a big problem with polygenism are also be resistant to the concept of evolution, perhaps because it opens the door to polygenism. Church teaching in relation to evolution and Adam and Eve is also hotly disputed among Catholics. You’ll probably find that out on this thread. 😃
 
Perhaps the Hebrew and Greek linguist’s interpretation of the words “parable” and “allegorical” might shed some needed light upon the Books of Genesis?

Duality of meaning, plurality of meanings, something along those lines?

jomoco:)
 
Just wondering a few things about the degree of creationism that is believed by members on this board:

How many here…

…believe that it is 100% factually incorrect that humans evolved from any kind of apelike creatures (neanderthals, cro-magnons, etc…)?

…believe the earth is only 5000 years old?

…believe that dinosaurs never existed and the fossils were created by God to test one’s faith?
these are not in Genesis so they are not articles of faith
…believe Adam and Eve were two literal people made out of clay and a rib, from which all humans have sprang?
poetic language for something science has proven–humans are created from matter, the same matter of which the planet earth consists
…believe that the world was literally created in seven 24 hour periods?
not in Genesis, not an article of faith
 
There are Catholics who do believe the all things you have listed above, there Catholics who don’t believe any of the things you have listed above, and there are many shades of grey in between.

I personally don’t know any Catholics who are particularly bothered by the age of the earth and the actual length of creative days. Maybe there are some, I just don’t know any. However, the big problem for some Catholics is polygeneism because in their view, it contravenes the Church’s teaching on original sin. As I understand it Catholics who have a big problem with polygenism are also be resistant to the concept of evolution, perhaps because it opens the door to polygenism. Church teaching in relation to evolution and Adam and Eve is also hotly disputed among Catholics. You’ll probably find that out on this thread. 😃
Here are a few words from Pope Benedict:

timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article1645453.ece

Peace,
Ed
 
Interesting. I get very frustrated with Catholic friends of mine (even more with Protestant) who take the Book of Genesis completely literally. I mean no disrespect to anyone, but to take it literally in this day and age seems so farfetched.
I get frustrated sometimes too. But not as much as I used to. If people interpret Genesis literally, they interpret Genesis literally. Nothing you say, or I say will change that. When I’m speaking with someone who interprets Genesis literally and I’ve discussed it with them, I just say, ‘I don’t see it like that, you know why I don’t see it like, and we’ll just have to agree to differ’ and leave it at that.
 
That is not official Church teaching. When the pope puts that in an encyclical with Magisterial approval, then it would be worth the paper it is written on.

Pax
I understand. However, as Pope, he is bound to speak what is true.

Peace,
Ed
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top