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Seamus_Sully
Guest
What is the literal interpretation of the Tree of Life (life’s tree)?
THANK YOU!
THANK YOU!
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
What is the literal interpretation of the tree of knowldge?
THANK YOU!
THANK YOU!
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
What is the literal meaning or interpretation of “the Lord God formed man out of the clay of the ground”?
Thanks!
Thanks!
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
Any help?
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thistle
Guest
D-R Bible Haydock Commentary on the Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge.
Genesis 2:9 The tree of life. So called, because it had that quality, that by eating of the fruit of it, man would have been preserved in a constant state of health, vigour, and strength, and would not have died at all. The tree of knowledge. To which the deceitful serpent falsely attributed the power of imparting a superior kind of knowledge beyond that which God was pleased to give. (Challoner) — Of what species these two wonderful trees were, the learned are not agreed. The tree of knowledge, could not communicate any wisdom to man; but, by eating of its forbidden fruit, Adam dearly purchased the knowledge of evil, to which he was before a stranger. Some say it was the fig-tree, others an apple-tree, Canticle of Canticles viii. 5. But it probably agreed with no species of trees with which we are acquainted, nor was there perhaps any of the same kind in paradise. (Tirinus)
Genesis 2:9 The tree of life. So called, because it had that quality, that by eating of the fruit of it, man would have been preserved in a constant state of health, vigour, and strength, and would not have died at all. The tree of knowledge. To which the deceitful serpent falsely attributed the power of imparting a superior kind of knowledge beyond that which God was pleased to give. (Challoner) — Of what species these two wonderful trees were, the learned are not agreed. The tree of knowledge, could not communicate any wisdom to man; but, by eating of its forbidden fruit, Adam dearly purchased the knowledge of evil, to which he was before a stranger. Some say it was the fig-tree, others an apple-tree, Canticle of Canticles viii. 5. But it probably agreed with no species of trees with which we are acquainted, nor was there perhaps any of the same kind in paradise. (Tirinus)
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
Was the Tree of Life for the interior or exterior man?
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
Any help?
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Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
It means what it seems to mean - it’s the equivalent of The Well at the World’s End, or the Elixir of Life: it’s part of the furniture of that myth; it’s no more real, in that passage, than they are, or than the talking snake is. The only non-fictional foods that gives life are the Gospel, the Eucharist, and the Bible: & they are not edible in the usual way 
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scottm
Guest
Um, that they were trees?
You’re question doesn’t make sense. A tree is a tree. Adam and Eve lived somewhere. There was vegetation of all sorts where they lived, including trees. There were animals of all sorts where they lived. A tree is a tree.
If I’m going to say “the fruit of the Tree of Life is impossible” then I’ll say that it’s impossible for Mary to have conceived the infant Jesus in her womb as a virgin. The virgin conception is, we know, miraculous. It’s impossible. If I can’t have a Tree of Life, then don’t give me the virginal conception of Jesus either.
And it is impossible for Mary to have maintained her virginity while birthing Jesus, too. Again, I have to disavow that point of doctrine too.
And for that matter, her assumption into heaven is impossible. And while we’re on the subject, the whole resurrection story of Jesus is just a bogus myth. It’s impossible. It couldn’t have happened. Just a made-up fiction story.
And the actual presence of Jesus in the communion hosts – whoa, that can’t be true either!
Then again, if I accept all of that Mary and Jesus stuff, then I can accept a Tree of Life too.
I think that’s what I’ll do. I’ll accept Mary and Jesus stuff, and in turn, accept the stories about the trees in the Garden of Eden.
Talking snakes, talking donkeys – I don’t know how that happened any more than I know how Mary got pregnant with Jesus, or how Jesus rose from the dead, or even how forgiveness of sins works. I don’t know. But I’m okay not knowing.
That said, the Tree of Knowledge could have been an ordinary tree of any sort. The fruit need not be special. It was the act of eating, or of not eating, that mattered. God forbid an act (it was “don’t eat from that tree”), and that act was independent of the particular species of tree.
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
I am not saying it is impossible.
I am trying to comprehend the literal meaning of the Tree of Life.
Jesus is the Lamb of God (St. John 1: 29).
Herod is a fox (St. Luke 13: 32).
Issachar is a rawboned *** (Gen. 49: 14-15).
Dan is a serpent (Gen. 49: 17).
Joseph is a wild colt (Gen. 49: 22).
Benjamin is a ravenous wolf (Gen. 49: 27).
We are sheep.
So my question: what is the literal meaning of the above passages?
I am trying to comprehend the literal meaning of the Tree of Life.
Jesus is the Lamb of God (St. John 1: 29).
Herod is a fox (St. Luke 13: 32).
Issachar is a rawboned *** (Gen. 49: 14-15).
Dan is a serpent (Gen. 49: 17).
Joseph is a wild colt (Gen. 49: 22).
Benjamin is a ravenous wolf (Gen. 49: 27).
We are sheep.
So my question: what is the literal meaning of the above passages?
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
These passages are about trees.
What is the literal meaning of these pasages?
Good Tree and Good People—A GOOD TREE does not bear rotten fruit, nor does a rotten tree bear good fruit. For every tree is known by its own fruit. For people do not pick figs from THORN bushes, nor do they gather grapes from brambles. A good person out of the store of goodness in his heart produces good, but an evil person out of the store of evil produces evil; for from the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks (St. Luke 6: 43-45).
St. Mark 4: 18-19—Those sown among THORNS are another sort. They are people who hear the word, but worldly anxiety, the lure of riches, and the craving for other things intrude and choke the word, and it bears not fruit.
Jude 1: 12—These are the blemishes on your love feasts, as they carouse fearlessly and look after themselves. They are waterless clouds blown about by winds, FRUITLESS TREES in late autumn, twice dead and uprooted.
Olive Tree and Israel—I will be like the dew for Israel: he shall blossom like the lily; He shall strike root like the Lebanon cedar, and put forth his shoots. His splendor shall be like the OLIVE TREE and his fragrance like the Lebanon cedar (Hosea 14: 6-7).
Olive Trees and people—“and beside it are two olive trees, one on the right and the other on the left.” (11) I then asked him, “What are these two olive trees at each side of the lampstand?” (14) He said, “These are the two anointed who stand by the Lord of the whole earth” (Zechariah 4: 3, 11, 14).
Revelation 11: 3-4—“I will commission my two witnesses to prophesy for those twelve hundred and sixty days, wearing sackcloth.” These are the two OLIVE TREES and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
Exodus 25: 37—You shall then make seven lamps for it and so set up the lamps that they shed their light on the space in front of the lampstand.
Happy People (Saints) and Tree—HAPPY are those who do not follow the counsel of the wicked…. They are like a TREE planted near streams of water, that yields its fruit in season; Its leaves never wither; what ever they do prospers (Psalm 1: 1 and 3).
St. John 1: 47-48—Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, “Here is a true Israelite. There is no duplicity in him. Nathanael said to Him, “How do you know me?” Jesus answered and said to him, “Before Philip called you, I saw you under the FIG TREE.”
Proverbs 27: 18—He who tends a FIG TREE eats its fruit, and he who is attentive to his master will be enriched.
Micah 4: 4—Every man shall sit under his own vine or under his own FIG TREE, undisturbed; for the mouth of the Lord of hosts has spoken. (Fig Trees: St. Matthew 21: 18-22; St. Mark 11: 12- 25; St. Luke 13: 6-9)
Proverbs 1: 31—Now they must EAT the FRUIT of their own ways, and with their own devices be glutted.
Proverbs 11: 28—He who trusts in his riches will fall, but like green LEAVES the just will flourish.
Proverbs 12: 14—From the FRUIT of his WORDS a man has his fill of good things, and the work of his hands comes back to reward him.
Thorns and Worldly Anxiety—Those sown among THORNS are another sort. They are people who hear the word, but worldly anxiety, the lure of riches, and the craving for other things intrude and choke the word, and it bears not fruit (St. Mark 4: 18-19).
Good Tree and Good People—A GOOD TREE does not bear rotten fruit, nor does a rotten tree bear good fruit. For every tree is known by its own fruit. For people do not pick figs from THORN bushes, nor do they gather grapes from brambles. A good person out of the store of goodness in his heart produces good, but an evil person out of the store of evil produces evil; for from the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks (St. Luke 6: 43-45).
St. Mark 4: 18-19—Those sown among THORNS are another sort. They are people who hear the word, but worldly anxiety, the lure of riches, and the craving for other things intrude and choke the word, and it bears not fruit.
Jude 1: 12—These are the blemishes on your love feasts, as they carouse fearlessly and look after themselves. They are waterless clouds blown about by winds, FRUITLESS TREES in late autumn, twice dead and uprooted.
Olive Tree and Israel—I will be like the dew for Israel: he shall blossom like the lily; He shall strike root like the Lebanon cedar, and put forth his shoots. His splendor shall be like the OLIVE TREE and his fragrance like the Lebanon cedar (Hosea 14: 6-7).
Olive Trees and people—“and beside it are two olive trees, one on the right and the other on the left.” (11) I then asked him, “What are these two olive trees at each side of the lampstand?” (14) He said, “These are the two anointed who stand by the Lord of the whole earth” (Zechariah 4: 3, 11, 14).
Revelation 11: 3-4—“I will commission my two witnesses to prophesy for those twelve hundred and sixty days, wearing sackcloth.” These are the two OLIVE TREES and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
What is the literal meaning of these pasages?
Good Tree and Good People—A GOOD TREE does not bear rotten fruit, nor does a rotten tree bear good fruit. For every tree is known by its own fruit. For people do not pick figs from THORN bushes, nor do they gather grapes from brambles. A good person out of the store of goodness in his heart produces good, but an evil person out of the store of evil produces evil; for from the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks (St. Luke 6: 43-45).
St. Mark 4: 18-19—Those sown among THORNS are another sort. They are people who hear the word, but worldly anxiety, the lure of riches, and the craving for other things intrude and choke the word, and it bears not fruit.
Jude 1: 12—These are the blemishes on your love feasts, as they carouse fearlessly and look after themselves. They are waterless clouds blown about by winds, FRUITLESS TREES in late autumn, twice dead and uprooted.
Olive Tree and Israel—I will be like the dew for Israel: he shall blossom like the lily; He shall strike root like the Lebanon cedar, and put forth his shoots. His splendor shall be like the OLIVE TREE and his fragrance like the Lebanon cedar (Hosea 14: 6-7).
Olive Trees and people—“and beside it are two olive trees, one on the right and the other on the left.” (11) I then asked him, “What are these two olive trees at each side of the lampstand?” (14) He said, “These are the two anointed who stand by the Lord of the whole earth” (Zechariah 4: 3, 11, 14).
Revelation 11: 3-4—“I will commission my two witnesses to prophesy for those twelve hundred and sixty days, wearing sackcloth.” These are the two OLIVE TREES and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
Exodus 25: 37—You shall then make seven lamps for it and so set up the lamps that they shed their light on the space in front of the lampstand.
Happy People (Saints) and Tree—HAPPY are those who do not follow the counsel of the wicked…. They are like a TREE planted near streams of water, that yields its fruit in season; Its leaves never wither; what ever they do prospers (Psalm 1: 1 and 3).
St. John 1: 47-48—Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, “Here is a true Israelite. There is no duplicity in him. Nathanael said to Him, “How do you know me?” Jesus answered and said to him, “Before Philip called you, I saw you under the FIG TREE.”
Proverbs 27: 18—He who tends a FIG TREE eats its fruit, and he who is attentive to his master will be enriched.
Micah 4: 4—Every man shall sit under his own vine or under his own FIG TREE, undisturbed; for the mouth of the Lord of hosts has spoken. (Fig Trees: St. Matthew 21: 18-22; St. Mark 11: 12- 25; St. Luke 13: 6-9)
Proverbs 1: 31—Now they must EAT the FRUIT of their own ways, and with their own devices be glutted.
Proverbs 11: 28—He who trusts in his riches will fall, but like green LEAVES the just will flourish.
Proverbs 12: 14—From the FRUIT of his WORDS a man has his fill of good things, and the work of his hands comes back to reward him.
Thorns and Worldly Anxiety—Those sown among THORNS are another sort. They are people who hear the word, but worldly anxiety, the lure of riches, and the craving for other things intrude and choke the word, and it bears not fruit (St. Mark 4: 18-19).
Good Tree and Good People—A GOOD TREE does not bear rotten fruit, nor does a rotten tree bear good fruit. For every tree is known by its own fruit. For people do not pick figs from THORN bushes, nor do they gather grapes from brambles. A good person out of the store of goodness in his heart produces good, but an evil person out of the store of evil produces evil; for from the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks (St. Luke 6: 43-45).
St. Mark 4: 18-19—Those sown among THORNS are another sort. They are people who hear the word, but worldly anxiety, the lure of riches, and the craving for other things intrude and choke the word, and it bears not fruit.
Jude 1: 12—These are the blemishes on your love feasts, as they carouse fearlessly and look after themselves. They are waterless clouds blown about by winds, FRUITLESS TREES in late autumn, twice dead and uprooted.
Olive Tree and Israel—I will be like the dew for Israel: he shall blossom like the lily; He shall strike root like the Lebanon cedar, and put forth his shoots. His splendor shall be like the OLIVE TREE and his fragrance like the Lebanon cedar (Hosea 14: 6-7).
Olive Trees and people—“and beside it are two olive trees, one on the right and the other on the left.” (11) I then asked him, “What are these two olive trees at each side of the lampstand?” (14) He said, “These are the two anointed who stand by the Lord of the whole earth” (Zechariah 4: 3, 11, 14).
Revelation 11: 3-4—“I will commission my two witnesses to prophesy for those twelve hundred and sixty days, wearing sackcloth.” These are the two OLIVE TREES and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
S
Seamus_Sully
Guest
What is the literal meaning of these passages?
I think that they are related to the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge, but HOW?
Exodus 25: 37—You shall then make seven lamps for it and so set up the lamps that they shed their light on the space in front of the lampstand.
Happy People (Saints) and Tree—HAPPY are those who do not follow the counsel of the wicked…. They are like a TREE planted near streams of water, that yields its fruit in season; Its leaves never wither; what ever they do prospers (Psalm 1: 1 and 3).
St. John 1: 47-48—Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, “Here is a true Israelite. There is no duplicity in him. Nathanael said to Him, “How do you know me?” Jesus answered and said to him, “Before Philip called you, I saw you under the FIG TREE.”
Proverbs 27: 18—He who tends a FIG TREE eats its fruit, and he who is attentive to his master will be enriched.
Micah 4: 4—Every man shall sit under his own vine or under his own FIG TREE, undisturbed; for the mouth of the Lord of hosts has spoken. (Fig Trees: St. Matthew 21: 18-22; St. Mark 11: 12- 25; St. Luke 13: 6-9)
Proverbs 1: 31—Now they must EAT the FRUIT of their own ways, and with their own devices be glutted.
Proverbs 11: 28—He who trusts in his riches will fall, but like green LEAVES the just will flourish.
Proverbs 12: 14—From the FRUIT of his WORDS a man has his fill of good things, and the work of his hands comes back to reward him.
Thorns and Worldly Anxiety—Those sown among THORNS are another sort. They are people who hear the word, but worldly anxiety, the lure of riches, and the craving for other things intrude and choke the word, and it bears not fruit (St. Mark 4: 18-19).
Good Tree and Good People—A GOOD TREE does not bear rotten fruit, nor does a rotten tree bear good fruit. For every tree is known by its own fruit. For people do not pick figs from THORN bushes, nor do they gather grapes from brambles. A good person out of the store of goodness in his heart produces good, but an evil person out of the store of evil produces evil; for from the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks (St. Luke 6: 43-45).
St. Mark 4: 18-19—Those sown among THORNS are another sort. They are people who hear the word, but worldly anxiety, the lure of riches, and the craving for other things intrude and choke the word, and it bears not fruit.
Jude 1: 12—These are the blemishes on your love feasts, as they carouse fearlessly and look after themselves. They are waterless clouds blown about by winds, FRUITLESS TREES in late autumn, twice dead and uprooted.
Olive Tree and Israel—I will be like the dew for Israel: he shall blossom like the lily; He shall strike root like the Lebanon cedar, and put forth his shoots. His splendor shall be like the OLIVE TREE and his fragrance like the Lebanon cedar (Hosea 14: 6-7).
Olive Trees and people—“and beside it are two olive trees, one on the right and the other on the left.” (11) I then asked him, “What are these two olive trees at each side of the lampstand?” (14) He said, “These are the two anointed who stand by the Lord of the whole earth” (Zechariah 4: 3, 11, 14).
Revelation 11: 3-4—“I will commission my two witnesses to prophesy for those twelve hundred and sixty days, wearing sackcloth.” These are the two OLIVE TREES and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
Exodus 25: 37—You shall then make seven lamps for it and so set up the lamps that they shed their light on the space in front of the lampstand.
Happy People (Saints) and Tree—HAPPY are those who do not follow the counsel of the wicked…. They are like a TREE planted near streams of water, that yields its fruit in season; Its leaves never wither; what ever they do prospers (Psalm 1: 1 and 3).
St. John 1: 47-48—Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, “Here is a true Israelite. There is no duplicity in him. Nathanael said to Him, “How do you know me?” Jesus answered and said to him, “Before Philip called you, I saw you under the FIG TREE.”
Proverbs 27: 18—He who tends a FIG TREE eats its fruit, and he who is attentive to his master will be enriched.
Micah 4: 4—Every man shall sit under his own vine or under his own FIG TREE, undisturbed; for the mouth of the Lord of hosts has spoken. (Fig Trees: St. Matthew 21: 18-22; St. Mark 11: 12- 25; St. Luke 13: 6-9)
Proverbs 1: 31—Now they must EAT the FRUIT of their own ways, and with their own devices be glutted.
Proverbs 11: 28—He who trusts in his riches will fall, but like green LEAVES the just will flourish.
Proverbs 12: 14—From the FRUIT of his WORDS a man has his fill of good things, and the work of his hands comes back to reward him.
Thorns and Worldly Anxiety—Those sown among THORNS are another sort. They are people who hear the word, but worldly anxiety, the lure of riches, and the craving for other things intrude and choke the word, and it bears not fruit (St. Mark 4: 18-19).
I think that they are related to the Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge, but HOW?
Exodus 25: 37—You shall then make seven lamps for it and so set up the lamps that they shed their light on the space in front of the lampstand.
Happy People (Saints) and Tree—HAPPY are those who do not follow the counsel of the wicked…. They are like a TREE planted near streams of water, that yields its fruit in season; Its leaves never wither; what ever they do prospers (Psalm 1: 1 and 3).
St. John 1: 47-48—Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, “Here is a true Israelite. There is no duplicity in him. Nathanael said to Him, “How do you know me?” Jesus answered and said to him, “Before Philip called you, I saw you under the FIG TREE.”
Proverbs 27: 18—He who tends a FIG TREE eats its fruit, and he who is attentive to his master will be enriched.
Micah 4: 4—Every man shall sit under his own vine or under his own FIG TREE, undisturbed; for the mouth of the Lord of hosts has spoken. (Fig Trees: St. Matthew 21: 18-22; St. Mark 11: 12- 25; St. Luke 13: 6-9)
Proverbs 1: 31—Now they must EAT the FRUIT of their own ways, and with their own devices be glutted.
Proverbs 11: 28—He who trusts in his riches will fall, but like green LEAVES the just will flourish.
Proverbs 12: 14—From the FRUIT of his WORDS a man has his fill of good things, and the work of his hands comes back to reward him.
Thorns and Worldly Anxiety—Those sown among THORNS are another sort. They are people who hear the word, but worldly anxiety, the lure of riches, and the craving for other things intrude and choke the word, and it bears not fruit (St. Mark 4: 18-19).
Good Tree and Good People—A GOOD TREE does not bear rotten fruit, nor does a rotten tree bear good fruit. For every tree is known by its own fruit. For people do not pick figs from THORN bushes, nor do they gather grapes from brambles. A good person out of the store of goodness in his heart produces good, but an evil person out of the store of evil produces evil; for from the fullness of the heart the mouth speaks (St. Luke 6: 43-45).
St. Mark 4: 18-19—Those sown among THORNS are another sort. They are people who hear the word, but worldly anxiety, the lure of riches, and the craving for other things intrude and choke the word, and it bears not fruit.
Jude 1: 12—These are the blemishes on your love feasts, as they carouse fearlessly and look after themselves. They are waterless clouds blown about by winds, FRUITLESS TREES in late autumn, twice dead and uprooted.
Olive Tree and Israel—I will be like the dew for Israel: he shall blossom like the lily; He shall strike root like the Lebanon cedar, and put forth his shoots. His splendor shall be like the OLIVE TREE and his fragrance like the Lebanon cedar (Hosea 14: 6-7).
Olive Trees and people—“and beside it are two olive trees, one on the right and the other on the left.” (11) I then asked him, “What are these two olive trees at each side of the lampstand?” (14) He said, “These are the two anointed who stand by the Lord of the whole earth” (Zechariah 4: 3, 11, 14).
Revelation 11: 3-4—“I will commission my two witnesses to prophesy for those twelve hundred and sixty days, wearing sackcloth.” These are the two OLIVE TREES and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
Exodus 25: 37—You shall then make seven lamps for it and so set up the lamps that they shed their light on the space in front of the lampstand.
Happy People (Saints) and Tree—HAPPY are those who do not follow the counsel of the wicked…. They are like a TREE planted near streams of water, that yields its fruit in season; Its leaves never wither; what ever they do prospers (Psalm 1: 1 and 3).
St. John 1: 47-48—Jesus saw Nathanael coming toward Him, “Here is a true Israelite. There is no duplicity in him. Nathanael said to Him, “How do you know me?” Jesus answered and said to him, “Before Philip called you, I saw you under the FIG TREE.”
Proverbs 27: 18—He who tends a FIG TREE eats its fruit, and he who is attentive to his master will be enriched.
Micah 4: 4—Every man shall sit under his own vine or under his own FIG TREE, undisturbed; for the mouth of the Lord of hosts has spoken. (Fig Trees: St. Matthew 21: 18-22; St. Mark 11: 12- 25; St. Luke 13: 6-9)
Proverbs 1: 31—Now they must EAT the FRUIT of their own ways, and with their own devices be glutted.
Proverbs 11: 28—He who trusts in his riches will fall, but like green LEAVES the just will flourish.
Proverbs 12: 14—From the FRUIT of his WORDS a man has his fill of good things, and the work of his hands comes back to reward him.
Thorns and Worldly Anxiety—Those sown among THORNS are another sort. They are people who hear the word, but worldly anxiety, the lure of riches, and the craving for other things intrude and choke the word, and it bears not fruit (St. Mark 4: 18-19).
S
scottm
Guest
You have to first learn grammar, before progressing to reading comprehension.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simile
I do not think for even a second that they are related to the Tree of Life or to the Tree of Knowledge. It’s your claim that they are. You prove it.
R
rwoehmke
Guest
Why should we have to accept all of the stuff in the Book of Genesis as being exactly what it says in plain English? I cannot see how not doing that reflects on the New Testament and makes it incredible. Just as Scully needs to learn English Grammer someone else needs to learn how to discern genres of literature. 
S
Seamus_Sully
Guest
scottm
Scott please be gentle to me, thank you.
You are correct, I can always improve on grammar.
Concerning my typing: I can always improve on my typing.
What I think about my grammar is as follows:
What is the literal interpretation of these passages?
The nominative is in the singular–I was looking for one literal interpretation of each one of those passages.
The objective is in the plural.
The verb agrees with the nominative case.
However, honestly, I am not a grammarian.
Furthermore, I could be incorrect in my above statements.
Also, I have typed many times on this forum the following sentence:
I am not a scholar. I am not a scholar. I am not a scholar.
Now back to my questioning.
This passage seems to be saying, people are trees.
Jude 1: 12—These are the blemishes on your love feasts, as they carouse fearlessly and look after themselves. They are waterless clouds blown about by winds, FRUITLESS TREES in late autumn, twice dead and uprooted.
These next two passages seem to be saying people are trees.
“and beside it are two olive trees, one on the right and the other on the left.” (11) I then asked him, “What are these two olive trees at each side of the lampstand?” (14) He said, “These are the two anointed who stand by the Lord of the whole earth” (Zechariah 4: 3, 11, 14).
Revelation 11: 3-4—“I will commission my two witnesses to prophesy for those twelve hundred and sixty days, wearing sackcloth.” These are the two OLIVE TREES and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
This passage seems to be saying people are oaks of righteousness.
Isaiah 61: 1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me to bring good tidings to the afflicted; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound; 2 to proclaim the year of the LORD’s favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn; 3 to grant to those who mourn in Zion-- to give them a garland instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, the mantle of praise instead of a faint spirit; that they may be called oaks of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he may be glorified.
Isaiah 61: 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified (KJV).
Jesus clearly tells us He is the Vine, and we are the branches.
In the first chapters of Genesis, Life is a tree. Knowledge is a tree. I paraphrased it. We could even say: life’s tree, knowlegde’s tree.
I am asking questions because I do not fully understand. It is what we do not know that gives us light. (The light that we get is not physical light. Similarly, Jesus is the Light of the world, but His light is not physical light.)
I am searching for love and understanding.
Virtue here seems to be a tree.
Proverbs 11: 30 (New American Bible)—The fruit of virtue is a TREE of LIFE.
Proverbs 11: 30 (King James Version)—The fruit of the righteous [is] a TREE of LIFE; and he that winneth souls [is] wise.
Virtues are found within our souls. So too is righteousness.
A wish fulfilled is said to be a tree.
Proverbs 13: 12—Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a wish fulfilled is a TREE of LIFE.
Moreover, the Holy Bible speaks differently than I do.
Jesus is the Lamb of God (St. John 1: 29).
Herod is a fox (St. Luke 13: 32).
Issachar is a rawboned *** (Gen. 49: 14-15).
Dan is a serpent (Gen. 49: 17).
Joseph is a wild colt (Gen. 49: 22).
Benjamin is a ravenous wolf (Gen. 49: 27).
Jesus tells St. Peter three times to feed His Sheep (St. John 21).
Is Jesus an physical sheep?
Is Herod a canine?
Is Dan a snake?
Is Joseph a pony?
Is Benjamin a barking wolf?
Are we white animals with four legs?
I do not fully understand the Holy Bible. I am looking for a little better understanding.
Again, I hope you are gentle with me. I am not a scholar. I am not a professional typist.
Scott please be gentle to me, thank you.
You are correct, I can always improve on grammar.
Concerning my typing: I can always improve on my typing.
What I think about my grammar is as follows:
What is the literal interpretation of these passages?
The nominative is in the singular–I was looking for one literal interpretation of each one of those passages.
The objective is in the plural.
The verb agrees with the nominative case.
However, honestly, I am not a grammarian.
Furthermore, I could be incorrect in my above statements.
Also, I have typed many times on this forum the following sentence:
I am not a scholar. I am not a scholar. I am not a scholar.
Now back to my questioning.
This passage seems to be saying, people are trees.
Jude 1: 12—These are the blemishes on your love feasts, as they carouse fearlessly and look after themselves. They are waterless clouds blown about by winds, FRUITLESS TREES in late autumn, twice dead and uprooted.
These next two passages seem to be saying people are trees.
“and beside it are two olive trees, one on the right and the other on the left.” (11) I then asked him, “What are these two olive trees at each side of the lampstand?” (14) He said, “These are the two anointed who stand by the Lord of the whole earth” (Zechariah 4: 3, 11, 14).
Revelation 11: 3-4—“I will commission my two witnesses to prophesy for those twelve hundred and sixty days, wearing sackcloth.” These are the two OLIVE TREES and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
This passage seems to be saying people are oaks of righteousness.
Isaiah 61: 1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me, because the LORD has anointed me to bring good tidings to the afflicted; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to those who are bound; 2 to proclaim the year of the LORD’s favor, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all who mourn; 3 to grant to those who mourn in Zion-- to give them a garland instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, the mantle of praise instead of a faint spirit; that they may be called oaks of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he may be glorified.
Isaiah 61: 3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified (KJV).
Jesus clearly tells us He is the Vine, and we are the branches.
In the first chapters of Genesis, Life is a tree. Knowledge is a tree. I paraphrased it. We could even say: life’s tree, knowlegde’s tree.
I am asking questions because I do not fully understand. It is what we do not know that gives us light. (The light that we get is not physical light. Similarly, Jesus is the Light of the world, but His light is not physical light.)
I am searching for love and understanding.
Virtue here seems to be a tree.
Proverbs 11: 30 (New American Bible)—The fruit of virtue is a TREE of LIFE.
Proverbs 11: 30 (King James Version)—The fruit of the righteous [is] a TREE of LIFE; and he that winneth souls [is] wise.
Virtues are found within our souls. So too is righteousness.
A wish fulfilled is said to be a tree.
Proverbs 13: 12—Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a wish fulfilled is a TREE of LIFE.
Moreover, the Holy Bible speaks differently than I do.
Jesus is the Lamb of God (St. John 1: 29).
Herod is a fox (St. Luke 13: 32).
Issachar is a rawboned *** (Gen. 49: 14-15).
Dan is a serpent (Gen. 49: 17).
Joseph is a wild colt (Gen. 49: 22).
Benjamin is a ravenous wolf (Gen. 49: 27).
Jesus tells St. Peter three times to feed His Sheep (St. John 21).
Is Jesus an physical sheep?
Is Herod a canine?
Is Dan a snake?
Is Joseph a pony?
Is Benjamin a barking wolf?
Are we white animals with four legs?
I do not fully understand the Holy Bible. I am looking for a little better understanding.
Again, I hope you are gentle with me. I am not a scholar. I am not a professional typist.
S
Seamus_Sully
Guest
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church
The senses of Scripture
115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral, and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.
116 The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: “All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal.”
117 The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.
The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.
119 “It is the task of exegetes to work, according to these rules, toward a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture in order that their research may help the Church to form a firmer judgment. For, of course, all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgment of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God.”
The senses of Scripture
115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral, and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.
116 The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: “All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal.”
117 The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.
- The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ’s victory and also of Christian Baptism.
- The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written “for our instruction.”
- The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, “leading”). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.
The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.
119 “It is the task of exegetes to work, according to these rules, toward a better understanding and explanation of the meaning of Sacred Scripture in order that their research may help the Church to form a firmer judgment. For, of course, all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgment of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God.”
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
The Bible is made up of writings which were composed by human beings.
They wrote, spoke, thought, prayed, as human beings in their settings might do. Which includes:- making direct statements - “Solomon became king”
- making such statements by using comparisons: “The kingdom of heaven is like a woman who made three measures of dough”
- using metaphors - “the Assyrian is the rod of My anger”, “Our God** is** a consuming fire”; “The Lord roars from Zion”
- using mythological language: “Thou hast been in Eden, the garden of God”
- and so on: “The Assyrian” is not a stick of wood or metal, & the prophet is not say he is - the reality is not what the direct meaning of the words “rod”, or “Assyrian” mean as entries in a dictionary, but what they mean in the figurative sense in which they are used here.
Yet the moment the same people go to the Bible, this ability to distinguish imagery from from what denoted by the imagery, flies out of the window.
Symbolism is not allowed in the Bible, they think - so while they do not imagine that Jesus sprouts leaves and grapes, even though He says He is a vine, which has those very things, they insist that because God is compared to a king, He must therefore have a throne to sit in, & that Jesus sits in another throne, at His right side. Such people ignore the statement that “Earth is my foot-stool”, because that would mean that God’s feet are placed on top of the earth. So they are selective in their reading.Yet none of this silliness is necessary. Christians are called “living stones”, “sheep”, “light”, “children”, & much more - taken in the silly way described, those descriptions make no sense whatever. That is what shows they are being taken in a way that is silly. Each description is saying something that the others can’t, about what it is to be a Christian; the descriptions complete one another. They don’t stop at themselves, but refer to, denote, something greater than any of them - the mystery of God’s relation to us.
That is why Genesis 2 uses mythological language, about a garden, its inhabitants, trees, four rivers, a talking snake. Because “factual” language does not say enough to say what the author is talking about - only mythological language will do. A story is far more effective than a list or a philosophical analysis. And trees were very familiar objects for the OT peoples - & for us: for Christians, the Hero of the story that is central to them, dies on a tree. Because of Who He is, that tree of His Death becomes for us who are dead the tree of life.
S
scottm
Guest
No it doesn’t.
When I said that you need to learn grammar, I was not talking about your typing. Your typing is fine. Not a problem. I was talking about similes and metaphors (hence the link to wikipedia). You’re asking questions about figures of speech.
Naw, it goes the other way around: the one who claims it isn’t what it says, has the burden of proving that it isn’t. That’s always and forever. And that proof better not knock out tenets of the faith. See, by whatever standard Joe Citizen interprets Genesis or Samuel or Kings as nothing but figurative myth, he can also interpret the gospels as nothing but figurative myth. It will always be that way, and the result is a god who doesn’t deserve a capital-G. The result is a god who never performed a single miracle. Be careful how you split the text. Figures of speech are found all over the Bible, but that doesn’t mean that everything is just figurative. You know what I’m saying??
R
rwoehmke
Guest
I hate to disagree with you, but I do not accept that for the Bible “one size fits all” nor does myth and fiction in some parts of the OT have to mean that the same applies to all the books. Like I recommended kiddo. Learn your genres and you will find there is nothing there that contradicts Catholic Teaching when you listen to the Magisterium for the final decisiont as to what something means. Further in reading scripture people derive lessons that apply only to themselves as individuals and they have no business trying to tell everyone that that is the only meaning.
S
scottm
Guest
I didn’t advocate a “one size fits all,” but the admonition that Genesis can’t be literal is such an idea, and it will always result in Kings and Samuel and the Gospels being non-literal as well, because they contain the same genre of writing. When you have the same type of writing, the same rules must apply. Therein is the rub. Perhaps you are not consistently applying the same rules of interpretation to all books within a given genre.
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