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Hope1960
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Anyone else?
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womanatwell
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@Hope1960 I am wondering if it is because of Aquinas that you think Christ consumed His own body at the Last Supper.
I’d just like to say that even though Aquinas believed Christ consumed His own body, I don’t find that indicated anywhere in the Bible. I would also be interested in the latest thought about this reasoning by Aquinas.
I’d just like to say that even though Aquinas believed Christ consumed His own body, I don’t find that indicated anywhere in the Bible. I would also be interested in the latest thought about this reasoning by Aquinas.
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Hope1960
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Yeah, I’m confused because of Aquinas.
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cody.helscel
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I’m not familiar with what St. Aquinas said on the matter. I would think Christ was speaking to the future for after his body was beaten, died and risen again. I could be wrong.
In any case, here is an article about it: Did Jesus Receive His Own Body and Blood? | Catholic Answers
In any case, here is an article about it: Did Jesus Receive His Own Body and Blood? | Catholic Answers
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Carmel
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Why not prayerfully read John Ch. 6 ? In V27 He says " Do not labour for the food that perishes, but for that which endures unto life everlasting, which the Son of Man will give you. For upon him the Father, God himself, has set his seal"
You will see that , on account of this teaching Jesus lost many of his followers. They said " This is a hard saying. Who can listen to this ?" From that day forward many of his disciples no longer walked with Him. In reference to this teaching Jesus also speaks of Judas the betrayer. V71 Have I not chosen you, the Twelve ? Yet, one of you is a devil "
It is an important chapter . You should read it through a few times and ask the Holy Spirit to enlighten your understanding of the Bread of Life.
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michael-kaw
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The gospel of John (I think the latest gospel) really stresses that it IS the body and blood of Christ. It stresses it because I think some people at the time thought it was symbolic and since I think he wrote the last gospel he really wanted to set the record straight.
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benjamin1973
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I did read it, and took it as metaphor, and still do. He didn’t say he was table bread. He said he was the bread of Heaven. I take that to mean that without him, there could be no way to nourish the soul.
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Carmel
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The table is the altar. At the Last Supper , the Lord said - " This is my body, this is my blood,
Do this in commemoration of me." Commemoration means to make present again. So every Mass offered , makes present again Jesus sacrificial offering of Himself to the Father, on our behalf.
In 1.Cor.11:29 Paul says " he who eats and drinks unworthily, without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgement to himself. That is why many among you are infirm and weak, and many sleep "
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Benadam
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What you believe is very close to what Catholics believe. Just take of ‘on Earth’.and add ‘in heaven’ His body had not been in heaven at the time it was on earth. Christ said He is bread from heaven. The Eucharist is what He meant when He said He is bread from heaven. That’s exactly what the Eucharist is. A better kind of bread. Jesus just had to go back to heaven for His body to be bread from heaven too. Jesus is His body too.He had to send the Holy spirit so it can happen anywhere anytime. It is Jesus as He is right now in heaven come down to earth as the bread from heaven just as He said He is.
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Benadam
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I’ll take that part out and nothing is lost.
Edit to Add. Your post is flagged for inappropriate content
Edit to Add. Your post is flagged for inappropriate content
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fhansen
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But why not defer to what the ancient Churches have always held and believed, since Scripture can be plausibly enough interpreted either way, and some Protestants interpret John 6 the same as the historical understanding anyway? Otherwise it’s just you and a sort of best-guess private interpretation.
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Benadam
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That you feel compelled to call our Eucharist a cracker does say much.
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benjamin1973
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I think you can see I’m not Catholic. Is it not a cracker? I’ve heard it called a wafer, a cracker, bread, the host, and a few other things, but I’ve never eaten one myself. You should know that I’m speaking plainly and truthfully, with a sincere interest in understanding this issue. I very truly cannot understand this issue.
But if flagging me for inappropriate content is how you want to respond, then okay. Perhaps the community here must be close to giving up on explaining it to me, and would rather I move on. If so, then what can I do but submit and move on?
But if flagging me for inappropriate content is how you want to respond, then okay. Perhaps the community here must be close to giving up on explaining it to me, and would rather I move on. If so, then what can I do but submit and move on?
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rose321
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Respectfully opinion only 2nd century?
What about the first century when they all walked the earth?Maybe we need to continue reading, do not just pick verses here and there?
John 6:63 The Spirit gives life the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are Spirit and Life.
Interesting also have a bible that says, Spirit and Word.
John 6 : 29 Jesus answered them. “This is the work of God that you believe in him whom he has sent”
Believe in> His Word and for all to live by?
Prophecy of Jeremiah 31:31-34 days are coming for
I will teach them, All will >know> me
Jesus was called >>The Nazarene>> Matthew 2:23 that which was spoken by the prophets.
St Paul uses the word bread does he not?
Bread nourishes us? His word nourishes us>>symbol = bread…His Word… nourishes us, it is our bread of Life?
Prophecies mentioning the branch ( nezer, notsri, natzer) link with Matthew 2: 23?
John 15:5 I am the vine you are the branches?
In St Paul Epistle asked by James to make the Nazarene Vow why? Seeking out knowledge and understanding, asking in prayer, about knowing more about the Nazarene’s >>seems to give light upon what is being said, right or wrong. Which has lead to many more questions, in what is written, is it literal or symbolic, in all that is written throughout the bible?
Just pondering on His Word and trying to stay in content from the front of the Bible to the end. For one only it has to flow in context, does it not?
Isaiah teaches us, how to read Scripture does he not?
Line upon line, line upon line …
Obeying His Thou shall not’s? Ten Commandments?
Isaiah 1:11 interesting?
Isaiah 66: 3 slaying a bull is like slaying a man, is this not written? Jesus heavily quotes the prophets Isaiah and Jeremiah why?
Why did Jesus get so angry at the merchants on his Temple porch, selling animals?
Within Genesis ? And all life is sacred in the Blood unto me, destroy it not is this not written?.
Peace
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benjamin1973
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It makes me a little uncomfortable appealing to the authority of academics on issues that seemed clear to me at the source. Surely when there’s conflict, I should wait with faith that the living God will make the way clear for me, rather than resorting to academic traditions, no?
This is, at its most essential, my problem-- I feel that my prayers WERE answered, and that I was called but too cowardly to answer the calls. Part of my reason for deciding not to answer what seemed to me a shining beacon was that the Catholic clergy warned me against pride, the illusion of private revelation, and so on. I turned away from the Church-- because if what feels like divine inspiration is only the deluded ramblings of an uneducated brain, then where is the motivation to seek or follow it?
Anyway, I ramble and I’m sorry about that. I think I need to read some of the extra-Biblical texts myself-- maybe adding some context will make some of these ideas make sense.
This is, at its most essential, my problem-- I feel that my prayers WERE answered, and that I was called but too cowardly to answer the calls. Part of my reason for deciding not to answer what seemed to me a shining beacon was that the Catholic clergy warned me against pride, the illusion of private revelation, and so on. I turned away from the Church-- because if what feels like divine inspiration is only the deluded ramblings of an uneducated brain, then where is the motivation to seek or follow it?
Anyway, I ramble and I’m sorry about that. I think I need to read some of the extra-Biblical texts myself-- maybe adding some context will make some of these ideas make sense.
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Benadam
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This series of posts is why I believe you were being offensive and knew were being offensive. I was offended because the term you used is offensive to anyone who loves Christ in the Eucharist… I don’t believe it was an accidental disrespect of me and other Catholics considering you already had offended Catholics with the term. You seem compelled to offend. I concluded that and that’s why I flagged your post. Your excuse of plain talk is rubbish. Offensive speech has nothing to do with speaking plainly.
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rose321
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Respectfully opinion only asking kindly
was the word used >>commemoration>>or >do this in memory of me? Changing words can they not also change the meaning of what is being said?Thanks Peace
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benjamin1973
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I felt that saying you can “eat as many as you want” when talking about a sacramental item was definitely offensive. They are clearly not party snacks, and I apologized for putting it that way.
As for what they are-- I don’t know. They look like crackers to me. I’ve heard them called wafers, but to me wafer and cracker are almost the same thing. But that’s a real red herring. My point is that it didn’t seem that Jesus was talking about a physical bread product, and that he was referring to a spiritual sustenance, using the word “bread” because there was no word for the kind of spiritual nourishment he was mentioning in Biblical passages.
I find your stance offensive, as well. I’m in a thread which is ABOUT Eucharistic bread, and I’m discussing that issue. I’ve read people’s posts, tried to understand and rephrase, and am explaining why it’s so difficult for me to get past this particular idea.
I don’t particularly appreciate being judged by you, or accused by you, or told that my way of communicating my ideas is rubbish.
But I’ll leave it to the community here. If one more person agrees with you, then I will thank everyone for their ideas and their sincere and careful explanations, and leave these forums.
As for what they are-- I don’t know. They look like crackers to me. I’ve heard them called wafers, but to me wafer and cracker are almost the same thing. But that’s a real red herring. My point is that it didn’t seem that Jesus was talking about a physical bread product, and that he was referring to a spiritual sustenance, using the word “bread” because there was no word for the kind of spiritual nourishment he was mentioning in Biblical passages.
I find your stance offensive, as well. I’m in a thread which is ABOUT Eucharistic bread, and I’m discussing that issue. I’ve read people’s posts, tried to understand and rephrase, and am explaining why it’s so difficult for me to get past this particular idea.
I don’t particularly appreciate being judged by you, or accused by you, or told that my way of communicating my ideas is rubbish.
But I’ll leave it to the community here. If one more person agrees with you, then I will thank everyone for their ideas and their sincere and careful explanations, and leave these forums.
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rose321
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Respectfully pondering
Kindly asking >is it not a scientific fact? >>Do trees not breath in and breath out what?And all life is sacred in the blood unto me and animals have blood, a gift also from our Heavenly Father to us?
Thanks Peace
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Carmel
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The Greek word for remembrance here is anamnesis , but this word is almost impossible to translate into English. All the English equivalents ( remembrance, memorial, commemoration ) lay stress on a past event. But anamnesis ( and the Hebrew word which underlies it ) is almost the opposite of this ; it means an action or reenactment by which the person or deed remembered is actually made present - brought into the here and now. The emphasis is not on the past, but on the present.Respectfully opinion only asking kindly
Thanks Peace
Another example of anamnesis is the Passover Meal (Seder) celebrated every year by the Israelites. Its a reenactment of the original passover , with the eating of the Passover Lamb which is brought into the present moment . Its ongoing , not just a memory from thousands of years ago.
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