"Litmus Test" for the true Church...

[Dr.Colossus]

kpnuts2k:

but what if you are divorced before you become a christain?

can you be remaried
and what if you are a widow can you marry again
or if you husband leaves you can you marry again cos you havnt done anything wrong?!

If you marry before you become Christian, then “what God hath joined together” doesn’t matter–He didn’t join anything! I believe a civil divorce is allowed in this instance.

If you widow you may remarry. Christ said that those in Heaven “neither marry nor are given in marriage”. The marriage vows state “till death do us part”. A marriage ends with the death of a spouse, and the other is free to remarry.

If the husband leaves, the Church teaches that an anullment must be received before the wife can remarry. Absence does not break the marital covenant. However, such gross infidelity would almost certainly merit an anullment.

 

[darcee]

If you marry before you become Christian, then “what God hath joined together” doesn’t matter–He didn’t join anything! I believe a civil divorce is allowed in this instance.

That is not correct. The marriage of pagans can still be considered valid.

-D

 

[hlgomez]

but what if you are divorced before you become a christain?

can you be remaried
and what if you are a widow can you marry again
or if you husband leaves you can you marry again cos you havnt done anything wrong?!

I want to answer your question in a simple way.

1. If there has been a valid marriage before you became a christian, and you got divorced, you cannot remarry unless the spouse dies. You can choose to remain single, or be reunited to your wife/husband.
2. if one is widowed, certainly he/she can choose to marry again!
3. Even if you haven’t done anything wrong, and your husband leaves you, your marriage doesn’t become null or ineffective. You cannot marry again. Either you pray that your husband comes back to you (if you love him) or choose to remain single.

Pio

 

[Dr.Colossus]

darcee:

That is not correct. The marriage of pagans can still be considered valid.

-D

The Church recognizes the validity of civil marriages. However, it does not consider the marriage between two non-Christians to be a sacrament, nor to have the covenant of marriage.

I’m still looking for the exact teaching on this (maybe someone else can help me out), but the Code of Canon Law does say this:

Can. 1143 §1. A marriage entered into by two non-baptized persons is dissolved by means of the pauline privilege in favor of the faith of the party who has received baptism by the very fact that a new marriage is contracted by the same party, provided that the non-baptized party departs.

A non-Christian marriage can be dissolved without an anullment if one of the spouses is baptized and they separate. It suggests that the Church has a very different view of non-Christian marriage than sacramental marriage.

 

[hlgomez]

Absence does not break the marital covenant.

It speaks for the valid marriages.

However, such gross infidelity would almost certainly merit an anullment.

The answer goes back to the first quote. It does not merit an annulment since there is a valid marriage. A valid marriage is indosolluble.

 

[Dr.Colossus]

hlgomez:

It speaks for the valid marriages.

The answer goes back to the first quote. It does not merit an annulment since there is a valid marriage. A valid marriage is indosolluble.

I’ll clarify. The Church considers all marriages valid until proven otherwise. Therefore, a person whose husband abandoned her could not remarry without an official dissolution of the marriage bond (anullment) from a marriage tribunal. However, chances are good that in a case such as this, an anullment would be granted. This is a fairly general case, however, and in a specific circumstance, the tribunal would look at many many details about the marrige in question. This is why they take years to complete.

 

[darcee]

Dr. Colossus:

The Church recognizes the validity of civil marriages. However, it does not consider the marriage between two non-Christians to be a sacrament, nor to have the covenant of marriage.
I’m still looking for the exact teaching on this (maybe someone else can help me out), but the Code of Canon Law does say this:
A non-Christian marriage can be dissolved without an anullment if one of the spouses is baptized and they separate. It suggests that the Church has a very different view of non-Christian marriage than sacramental marriage.

First a declaration of nullity does not dissolve the marriage it says that a valid marriage never was entered into. Pauline Privilege can be grounds for a annulment, but you can’t turn it around and say that since Pauline privilege exists that pagan marriage are prima facie invalid.

And it ONLY applies when one spouse converts and the other refuses to convert. If they both convert their pagan marriage can not be declared null under the Pauline privilege…

 

[Dr.Colossus]

darcee:

First a declaration of nullity does not dissolve the marriage it says that a valid marriage never was entered into. Pauline Privilege can be grounds for a annulment, but you can’t turn it around and say that since Pauline privilege exists that pagan marriage are prima facie invalid.

And it ONLY applies when one spouse converts and the other refuses to convert. If they both convert their pagan marriage can not be declared null under the Pauline privilege…

I had read or been told previously that non-sacramental marriages did not need to be anulled, but as I look further into this I can’t find any Church teaching to support that. I guess you learn something new every day.

 

[darcee]

Also… infidelity, gross or otherwise, is not grounds for an annulment unless you could prove that then intent for fidelity was not there at the time of the marriage. Infidelity might be taken into consideration when looking at the circumstances and the intent of those entering the union but it is not, of itself, proof that the marriage was invalid.

-D

 

[darcee]

Dr. Colossus:

I had read or been told previously that non-sacramental marriages did not need to be anulled, but as I look further into this I can’t find any Church teaching to support that. I guess you learn something new every day.

Yeap I learn about 50 new things a day. Believe me I have been through this. My first marriage was and LDS marriage, which as you know if you read the other thread does NOT have a valid baptism.

Only the Catholic Church can bestow a sacramental marriage… Baptist marriages while Christian are not sacramental, but are valid, and if a Baptist couple converted and wanted a sacramental marriage they would have to be blessed by a priest. But if they were divorced they would still need an annulment to remarry.

-D

 

[Dr.Colossus]

Thanks for correcting me. It sounds like you have quite a bit of knowledge/experience in this matter. Everybody else…pay no attention to the man behind the curtain

 

[darcee]

Just another thing… BOY HAS THIS THREAD WONDERED ABOUT!!!

:whacky:

 

[darcee]

Dr. Colossus:

Thanks for correcting me. It sounds like you have quite a bit of knowledge/experience in this matter. Everybody else…pay no attention to the man behind the curtain

No embarrassment… it is a complicated business. And a heartbreaking one. Especially since I know people who had lived far from God married a total cad, divorced, married someone wonderful, got their lives together came to God and found out that they were living in sin, still married to the first person and had to sweat it out if their first married would ever be nullified.

-D