Little help in conversation with my agnostic friend?

[m4dc4p]

Having an email conversation with a good friend about Jesus, God, etc. He agrees Jesus existed, but maintains the Gospel miracles were made up. I’ve shown him, pretty clearly I think, how early the New Testament documents are dated, and the unlikelihood that it was all a fabrication. However, here is his latest reply:

"Clearly something extraordinary happened … I just question taking ancient writings, regardless of their content or how authentic they seem, as proof of events that are known to be not physically possible or replicable. "

Any thoughts on responses? Thanks in advance!

 

[PhilNeri]

What about other ancient writings? Pretty much everyone accepts the writings of Josephus, etc. No one denies that Virigil wrote the Aeneid or Cicero really gave his orations. No one says that it might just have been made up later and attributed to them. Why is it different with the Bible?
What about the Early Church Fathers? Has he read those? They are pretty good proof that people really believed this stuff a few decades after Christ.
Just plain logically, would anyone really be willing to die for something that they knew was false? All of the Apostles (with the exception of John) were martyred. If they just made this whole thing up, don’t you think they would have admitted it rather than be killed?

Just my thoughts

 

[challenger]

m4dc4p:

Having an email conversation with a good friend about Jesus, God, etc. He agrees Jesus existed, but maintains the Gospel miracles were made up. I’ve shown him, pretty clearly I think, how early the New Testament documents are dated, and the unlikelihood that it was all a fabrication. However, here is his latest reply:

"Clearly something extraordinary happened … I just question taking ancient writings, regardless of their content or how authentic they seem, as proof of events that are known to be not physically possible or replicable. "

Any thoughts on responses? Thanks in advance!

Of course it’s not physically possible. That’s what makes it a miracle. As for being replicable, can you replicate Washington’s crossing of the Delaware? Of course not, but that doesn’t mean it’s a myth.

And as for fabrication, the apostles were not the fabricating type. If they were going to fabricate anything, it would be Jesus’ resurrection; and there is a mountain of evidence that they did not fabricate that.

 

[NotWorthy]

How about the fact that so many Apostles and Martyrs died willingly, and happily, rather than denying that these miracles were fabricated?

NotWorthy

 

[Scott_Waddell]

For an agnostic to say the miracles were made up sounds so darn non-agnostic.

He will have a tough time refuting it without making a circular argument:

Why aren’t the miracles in the Gospel true?
Because they were reported by superstitious men.
How do you know they were superstitious?
Because they believed in miracles.

Scott