Little Office of the BVM

[camkutz]

I use the Divine Office (Collins UK version) and I really want to use the Little Office and grow to love it as much as I can with the Divine Office. A reason for this is because I only have Morning, Evening and Night Prayer in my Divine Office however it has all the saints feast days all the commons etc.
I’m just wondering to find out who got on with using this really well? Who uses it? And who chooses not to use it, if, why? If there is a reason
Also, I’m just wondering, I have the most recent Baronius Press version of the Little Office, and I’m just wondering do all Little Offices not contain proper for the saints and stuff? And are the offices supposed to be the same everyday?
I have Office 1, Office 2 Advent and Office 3 Christmastide, when it says about say up until the Purification - is it referring to in the old calendar? Or?
Sorry so many questions

 

[Windmill]

who got on with using this really well? Who uses it? And who chooses not to use it, if, why?

I tried, but the repetitive nature of it made it hard for me to use. It is also a lot of offices during the day for a layman (8 offices, and Matins is a bear). I sometimes pull it out on Marian feast days, but other than that it is gathering dust on the bookshelf.

I have Office 1, Office 2 Advent and Office 3 Christmastide, when it says about say up until the Purification - is it referring to in the old calendar?

Yes, it is in reference to the Extraordinary Form (1962) calendar. This has been renamed the Feast of the Presentation of the Lord in the Ordinary Form calendar. The former refers to the ritual purification of Mary after having born a son. The second refers to the event where Mary and Joseph brought the baby Jesus to the Temple as prescribed by Mosaic Law (40 days after birth).

 

[TimothyH]

As windmill stated, the Baronius Press version is the old Office - Pre-1962. I used it for a little while but found the different nocturns, seasons, prayer endings and archaic language kept me focused on the mechanics of the office rather than focused on prayer.

The newer version (St. Joseph Press) is just a seven day cycle of morning, evening and night prayer, repeated week after week in modern English. It is very simple and I enjoyed it for quite a while. It enabled me to get into the rhythm of regular liturgical prayer until I was ready for Shorter Christian Prayer and then the full LoTH.

I still have the Baronius Press version in near perfect condition. Send me a PM if you want it. You pay only shipping cost which might be steep if you are in England. I am in the USA. Two extra ribbons were my addition.









-Tim-

 

[camkutz]

Thank you very much! However I have this version as mentioned earlier heh, the exact same! I think also I have the St.Joseph’s 1 week version.
Lol I find it strange in a way people use it as a stepping stone from the full LoTH, yet I already use the full version haha it’s like I’m stepping down

 

[O_Sapientia]

I used to regularly use the Little Office, now I use the traditional Benedictine Office. I find the lack of variation to be comforting. It’s the same almost all of the time, there is strength and power in a fixed schema like that. I find greater cycles only for the sheer purpose of getting something different every day to be superficial and shallow. And we cannot hold the repetitive nature of the Little Office against it anymore than you can do so against the Benedictine Office. You can actually enter into the prayer because it lets you become acquainted with it.

I heartily recommend taking it up!

 

[UpUpAndAway]

I can’t answer any of your questions except

And who chooses not to use it, if, why? If there is a reason

I don’t pray (no offense, but the word “use” seems odd to me when talking about prayer) the Little Office because I already struggle to find the time to pray the LOTH. I have a full and varied spiritual routine, of which the LOTH is just one part. Adding devotions to it would, at this time, be madness.

In reviewing the text of the Little Office, I also think I would be more inclined to pray either the Little Office or the LOTH, not both. While I don’t rule out praying the Little Office in the future, for now I’m fully focused on the LOTH.

Thank you very much! However I have this version as mentioned earlier heh, the exact same! I think also I have the St.Joseph’s 1 week version.
Lol I find it strange in a way people use it as a stepping stone from the full LoTH, yet I already use the full version haha it’s like I’m stepping down

Are you praying with the full Divine Office breviary (three volumes)? I’m confused because in your opening post you said “I only have Morning, Evening and Night Prayer in my Divine Office” and the full version would include additional offices.

God bless!

 

[TimothyH]

I don’t think the Little Office was intended to be prayed in parallel with the Liturgy of the Hours. Both are liturgical prayers to be used at specific hours or specific times of the day. Vespers, for example, is one prayer. It doesn’t make sense to pray vespers twice - Little Office and LoTH.

We also have to remember that the Liturgy of the Hours is a public, liturgical act of the Church. The word liturgy means work of the people. The Liturgy of the Hours is not a private devotion as is the rosary. The rosary, and any other private devotion, no matter how powerful or fruitful to us personally, is not liturgical. When we pray the Liturgy of the Hours we enter into the liturgical action of the Bride praying to her Bridegroom.

In the life of the Church, the Liturgy of the Hours is second only to the Mass and the Liturgy of the Hours enters into the Churches liturgical prayer more fully than does the Little Office.

-Tim-

 

[Magdalen2013]

I use the 1946 version of the Little Office of the BVM by Rev. J. M. Lelen. I gave up on the Baronius after one too many mis-translations of the Latin to English.

I do Morning, Evening and Night Prayer from the LOTH each day, and fit the hours from the Little Office around them (the actual book is dainty and therefore easy to take with me).

 

[O_Sapientia]

I don’t think the Little Office was intended to be prayed in parallel with the Liturgy of the Hours. Both are liturgical prayers to be used at specific hours or specific times of the day. Vespers, for example, is one prayer. It doesn’t make sense to pray vespers twice - Little Office and LoTH.

We also have to remember that the Liturgy of the Hours is a public, liturgical act of the Church. The word liturgy means work of the people. The Liturgy of the Hours is not a private devotion as is the rosary. The rosary, and any other private devotion, no matter how powerful or fruitful to us personally, is not liturgical. When we pray the Liturgy of the Hours we enter into the liturgical action of the Bride praying to her Bridegroom.

In the life of the Church, the Liturgy of the Hours is second only to the Mass and the Liturgy of the Hours enters into the Churches liturgical prayer more fully than does the Little Office.

-Tim-

The Little Office was originally intended to be said with the greater Office. That’s how it started out, that’s how it was imposed on clerics by force of law, that’s how it was practised by numerous orders (Dominican, Carmelite) and continues to be used as such by the Carthusians today. You may think two Vespers unwise, but the liturgical wisdom of the Church would disagree with you. Besides, the Little Office is not alone in this. The Office of the Dead is used in conjunction with the greater office too. When you recite Vespers of the dead, you recite it with the day’s Vespers too.

And the simple fact is that the Little Office is liturgical prayer. You are just as fully participating in a liturgical act when you recite the Little Office as when you recite the Roman Breviary or Liturgy of the Hours. The greater Office allows one to deepen their personal relationship with the liturgical year, etc. But when you say Our Lady’s Vespers it is equal in liturgical status to Vespers in the Liturgy of the Hours.

 

[Windmill]

Honestly, you have to look at the total daily “devotional load”. I find that one needs to prioritize one’s devotions because there are only so many hours in the day, and devotions should not interfere with one’s vocation. So, if you are a monk whose whole job is prayer, then praying the full Divine Office AND the LOBVM might not be a big deal. If you are wanting to squeeze in a Rosary, then be realistic about the commitment to a version of the Office you pray (either choosing a simpler version to pray or praying fewer times a day from a larger office).

I have every form of the Divine Office you could think of, and no one form is Nirvana. I have:
Liturgy of the Hours (ICEL English)
Liturgia Horarum (official Latin version of the LOTH)
1961 Roman Breviary Latin/English (Baronius Press)
1961 Roman Diurnal (Latin-only, no Matins)
Monastic Diurnal (Benedictine 1963 Office without Matins)
Both the pre- and post-conciliar LOBVM’s.

I actually contacted Fr.Z. about which version would be best for me. He said, since I attend Mass in the Ordinary Form I should pray the Office in the OF, too. Best to be on the same page as Mass. I find I tend to gravitate towards the Latin Liturgia Horarum because I sing in a men’s Gregorian chant group and am comfortable praying in Latin. For most, he said they should stick with the English Liturgy of the Hours, especially if they plan to pray with others in their parish.

If you want any first-hand advice, let me know and I’ll be happy to help.

 

[OraLabora]

Honestly, you have to look at the total daily “devotional load”. I find that one needs to prioritize one’s devotions because there are only so many hours in the day, and devotions should not interfere with one’s vocation. So, if you are a monk whose whole job is prayer, then praying the full Divine Office AND the LOBVM might not be a big deal. If you are wanting to squeeze in a Rosary, then be realistic about the commitment to a version of the Office you pray (either choosing a simpler version to pray or praying fewer times a day from a larger office).

I have every form of the Divine Office you could think of, and no one form is Nirvana. I have:
Liturgy of the Hours (ICEL English)
Liturgia Horarum (official Latin version of the LOTH)
1961 Roman Breviary Latin/English (Baronius Press)
1961 Roman Diurnal (Latin-only, no Matins)
Monastic Diurnal (Benedictine 1963 Office without Matins)
Both the pre- and post-conciliar LOBVM’s.

I actually contacted Fr.Z. about which version would be best for me. He said, since I attend Mass in the Ordinary Form I should pray the Office in the OF, too. Best to be on the same page as Mass. I find I tend to gravitate towards the Latin Liturgia Horarum because I sing in a men’s Gregorian chant group and am comfortable praying in Latin. For most, he said they should stick with the English Liturgy of the Hours, especially if they plan to pray with others in their parish.

If you want any first-hand advice, let me know and I’ll be happy to help.

My experience is fairly similar. I attend an OF Mass at a Benedictine monastery, to which I’m affiliated as oblate. So I use an office aligned with that. I typically alternate between the 4-week LOTH and the Benedictine schema B. The latter is meant to be said over one week (150 psalms) but there are a couple of licit variations listed that allow it to be spread over 2 weeks, which is what I do. During complex liturgies like Christmas, I use the 4-week LOTH, and I tend to do the same at feasts and solemnities, just to make life easier and avoids, as Tim says, making it a mechanical act rather than prayer.

Like you I sing in a chant schola and am comfortable with Latin. When praying the monastic schema B, because of the liturgical books I have at my disposal for it, I pray Matins, Terce, Sext and Compline in French, but Lauds and Vespers in Latin using in-house books noted for chant and with the French translation alongside. For the 4-week LOTH, I pray entirely in Latin, using Liturgia Horarum for Matins (Office of Readings) and Les Heures Grégoriennes for the day hours; Les Heures books are noted for Gregorian chant. One thing I do like about Les Heures is that for any given day, everything is in one book with relatively manageable page-flipping. On the other hand my schema B books require book flipping on anything other than ordinary ferias in Ordinary Time. It gets to be a pain and does detract from the flow of the prayer.

My routine for the Latin is to chant the psalm in Latin chant (for LH I use “in directum”), and then read the psalm silently in French. For the readings I use my mother tongue, French. I use both the Monastic lectionary for the Matins readings, which is on a 2-year cycle and for which the patristic readings draw more from monastic sources than LOTH. But I also read the 1-year cycle readings in LOTH separately. The reason is that when I travel, I do use the LOTH and can have everything, readings and the Office, in one convenient book. By reading the 1-year as my lectio divina, when I travel I maintain continuity when I switch to it for the Office of Readings.

However I’m semi-retired. I have time on my hands. I can’t imagine anyone with a family and professional/work life doing the full Benedictine office. I tried it once and it was a nightmare especially in the morning (Matins-Lauds-Prime in rapid fire succession). Hats off to anyone who can pull it off and really pray it, but I do prefer an easier office. It’s just more “legato” in that it flows more easily and is less rushed. If I were a monk, it would be a different story but as it stands using Schema B over 2 weeks or the LOTH, I can participate fully in the liturgical life of the Church and that’s a huge blessing to me.

 

[TimothyH]

The Little Office was originally intended to be said with the greater Office. That’s how it started out, that’s how it was imposed on clerics by force of law, that’s how it was practised by numerous orders (Dominican, Carmelite) and continues to be used as such by the Carthusians today. You may think two Vespers unwise, but the liturgical wisdom of the Church would disagree with you. Besides, the Little Office is not alone in this. The Office of the Dead is used in conjunction with the greater office too. When you recite Vespers of the dead, you recite it with the day’s Vespers too.

And the simple fact is that the Little Office is liturgical prayer. You are just as fully participating in a liturgical act when you recite the Little Office as when you recite the Roman Breviary or Liturgy of the Hours. The greater Office allows one to deepen their personal relationship with the liturgical year, etc. But when you say Our Lady’s Vespers it is equal in liturgical status to Vespers in the Liturgy of the Hours.

I almost wrote that I am happy to be corrected at the end of my post and I stand so. Thanks for the info on the Little Office being prayed along with the greater Office. I appreciate the correction.

I never said that the Little Office wasn’t liturgical or that it wasn’t part of the public prayer of the Church however. That’s not what I wrote. I wrote that the one enters into the liturgical prayer of the Church more fully with the LoTH than one does with the Little Office. I could have used more accurate language and maybe I misunderstood the citations below. For that I apologize but this is where I got that general idea:

*Sacrosanctum Concilium (Dec 4, 1963)
They too perform the public prayer of the Church who, in virtue of their constitutions, recite any short office, provided this is drawn up after the pattern of the divine office and is duly approved.

Ecclesiae Sanctae (Pope Paul VI)
“20. Although Religious who recite a duly approved Little Office perform the public prayer of the Church (cf. Constitution Sacrosanctum Concilium, No. 98), it is nevertheless recommended to the institutes that in place of the Little Office they adopt the Divine Office either in part or in whole so that they may participate more intimately in the liturgical life of the Church…”*

It does say more intimately, not more fully. I recall that you are religious or lay religious and will defer to your expertise if I misunderstood.

I also recall that Brother JR said that the LoTH more fully entered the liturgical prayer of the Church but can’t find the post.

-Tim-

 

[corsair]

I use the 1904 version from St Bonaventure Press in Great Falls, MT.It was originally published by Benziger Brothers in 1904.

I love the old language. For me it flows easily. Of course I love the Douay Rheims Bible too.

This past year has been pretty crowded with activiities so I’ve fallen off my schedule slightly. But I still get most of the hours said.