Liturgical abuse? Altar server/Chalice/purifying

[benedictgal]

The EMHC’s take the Eucharist to the sick.

JuanCarlos, I am curious. Why would the EMHCs be the only ones receiving the Precious Blood. Even though they are taking Holy Communion to the sick, they are not functioning in their capacity during the Mass. Thus, as I see it, they should be like the rest of the faithful.

We have a woman who will sometimes take Holy Communion to the sick after daily Mass, but, she does not approach the altar to receive the Precious Blood as an EMHC would do. She goes to Holy Communion like the rest of us.

 

[peary]

After Communion, Fr. sat down at his seat while I was kneeling with the water cruet, for the ablutions. After he sat down, I went up and asked if he was going to purify the Chalice. He responded that it was still filled with the Precious Blood, so he wasn’t going to purify it- he said he doesn’t drink the Precious Blood (at least that’s what I I think he said). He said he usually had someone else drink It for him. I then offered to do so, so I received the Precious Blood. After I drank, he poured in the water, but then asked me to purify it by drinking the water/Precious Blood remnant. I did so, but thought it was odd.

Was this an abuse? What should I do if the priest asks me to do this in the future?

It sounds as if he is a recovering alcoholic which is why he allowed you to do so, in which case it appears to be permissible.

 

[OhMalley]

It sounds as if he is a recovering alcoholic which is why he allowed you to do so, in which case it appears to be permissible.

No way. The presiding priestly celebrant must take communion under both kinds. In extreme cases he may seek permission from his bishop to use mustum (special grape juice with a very low alcohol content.)

 

[benedictgal]

No way. The presiding priestly celebrant must take communion under both kinds. In extreme cases he may seek permission from his bishop to use mustum (special grape juice with a very low alcohol content.)

Exactly, the Sacrifice is complete only when the celebrant consumes both the Body and Blood of Jesus, meaning he must consume the Sacred Host and drink the Precious Blood.

 

[oznier]

Just a quick q- I altar served for a priest I have never served under today, and something unusual happened. I’m just wondering if it was abusive (this was in the OF, not the EF, just to clarify)

After Communion, Fr. sat down at his seat while I was kneeling with the water cruet, for the ablutions. After he sat down, I went up and asked if he was going to purify the Chalice. He responded that it was still filled with the Precious Blood, so he wasn’t going to purify it- he said he doesn’t drink the Precious Blood (at least that’s what I I think he said). He said he usually had someone else drink It for him. I then offered to do so, so I received the Precious Blood. After I drank, he poured in the water, but then asked me to purify it by drinking the water/Precious Blood remnant. I did so, but thought it was odd.

Was this an abuse? What should I do if the priest asks me to do this in the future?

Why not just ask him why he does what he does? Please don’t attribute abuse or lack of faith before inquiring Maybe the priest has an alcohol problem. Don’t forget it still has the accidents of alcohol even though the substance is the Precious Blood… .Oznier

 

[OhMalley]

Why not just ask him why he does what he does? Please don’t attribute abuse or lack of faith before inquiring Maybe the priest has an alcohol problem. Don’t forget it still has the accidents of alcohol even though the substance is the Precious Blood… .Oznier

True – the OP should have never posted without knowing the facts – facts that should be obvious as if the celebrant took communion under both kinds.

That said even if the main celebrant is an alcoholic, it’s unacceptable****** for him not to receive under both kids – even if he has to use mustum with his bishops approval.

NB: Alcoholic priests who require the use of mustum may not concelebrate the Mass.

 

[peary]

No way. The presiding priestly celebrant must take communion under both kinds. In extreme cases he may seek permission from his bishop to use mustum (special grape juice with a very low alcohol content.)

Maybe he did use mustum and the altar server didn’t know it. It was just my personal opinion anyway.

 

[Sr_Sally]

I posted so that if the situation arose again, I would have a better response.

Seems like the best response would be to simply leave the chalice veiled until after Mass and then ask the priest specifically what he wants. It is always best to just ask politely to the person affected rather than come here and possible scandalize someone.

 

[oznier]

The Precious Blood is to be consumed at the altar during Mass and the vessels clensed at that time also. This event has already taken place. To avoid having it happen again ASK the priest. Oznier

 

[John_Lilburne]

The Precious Blood is to be consumed at the altar during Mass and the vessels clensed at that time also. …

I agree, the Precious Blood is to be consumed during Mass. But the vessels do not need be cleansed during Mass. As I posted in #18 above, from the 2002 GIRM: “279. The sacred vessels are purified by the priest, the deacon, or an instituted acolyte after Communion or after Mass, insofar as possible at the credence table.” (My bold text.)

 

[oznier]

I am not sure if it was made church wide or just our diocese but the vessels are to be cleansed after communion at the altar where I live. Try contacting “Adoremus Bulletin” the source for liturgical regulations
Oznier

 

[OhMalley]

I am not sure if it was made church wide or just our diocese but the vessels are to be cleansed after communion at the altar where I live. Try contacting “Adoremus Bulletin” the source for liturgical regulations
Oznier

As John Lilburne noted the General Instruction of the Romal Missal comments on this:

***GIRM: “279. **The sacred vessels are purified by the priest, the deacon, or an instituted acolyte after Communion or after Mass, insofar as possible at the credence table.” *

Could your local say that the purification will always take place during the Mass and not directly after it? Sure – that’s within his authority and it does not contravene the GIRM.

I just wonder why you would suggest contacting Adoremus when the germane Church document has already been provided? It’s the Church (through our bishops) and not Adoremus that we must follow.

 

[OhMalley]

"…local (bishop)…

 

[John_Lilburne]

OhMalley is saying: “Could your local bishop say that the purification will always take place during the Mass and not directly after it? Sure – that’s within his authority and it does not contravene the GIRM.”

I think this would be beyond is authority. The GIRM is clearly saying the purifications can be done after Mass.

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“163. … Nevertheless, it is also permitted, especially if there are several vessels to be purified, to
leave them suitably covered on a corporal, either at the altar or at the credence table, and to
purify them immediately after Mass following the dismissal of the people.”
“183. … It is also permissible to leave the vessels that need to be purified,
suitably covered, at the credence table on a corporal and to purify them immediately after Mass
following the dismissal of the people.”
(Plus the GIRM n. 279 I quoted in other posts above).

The GIRM has Chapter IX with the title “Adaptations Within the Competence of Bishops and Bishops’ Conferences”. There is has:
“387. The Diocesan Bishop, who is to be regarded as the high priest of his flock, and from
whom the life in Christ of the faithful under his care in a certain sense derives and upon whom it
depends,148 must promote, regulate, and be vigilant over the liturgical life in his diocese. It is to
him that in this Instruction is entrusted the regulating of the discipline of concelebration (cf.
above, nos. 202, 374) and the establishing of norms regarding the function of serving the priest at
the altar (cf. above, no. 107), the distribution of Holy Communion under both kinds (cf. above,
no. 283), and the construction and ordering of churches (cf. above, no. 291). With him lies
responsibility above all for fostering the spirit of the Sacred Liturgy in the priests, deacons, and
faithful.”

So there are specific things an individual bishop can decide and the time of the purifications is not one of them. The bishop cannot say (about something so explicitly permitted) that it is not permitted.

 

[JuanCarlos]

I altar served again today, and so did some “investigation”

The Priest receives both the Host and the Precious Blood at the same time- via intinction. It seemed legitimate so I went along with it.

Again, I purified the Chalice after Communion (poured water in, swirled the Chalice, then drank the remains of the Precious Blood). I’ve been instituted as an EMHC (although I have not acted as such in at least a year), so I felt like I had some authority to purify the Chalice.

It seemed okay to me; I guess the intinction was just too subtle for me to catch the first time.

 

[OhMalley]

OhMalley is saying: “Could your local bishop say that the purification will always take place during the Mass and not directly after it? Sure – that’s within his authority and it does not contravene the GIRM.”

I think this would be beyond (h)is authority. The GIRM is clearly saying the purifications can be done after Mass…

…So there are specific things an individual bishop can decide and the time of the purifications is not one of them. The bishop cannot say (about something so explicitly permitted) that it is not permitted.

I don’t think that’s accurate. There are two licit/defined options per the GIRM. The local ordinary in this case has said only one is acceptable in his diocese. He clearly has that authority.

This is not a case where the local ordinary has come-up with his own option that contravenes what the Church directs.

 

[OhMalley]

I altar served again today, and so did some “investigation”

The Priest receives both the Host and the Precious Blood at the same time- via intinction. It seemed legitimate so I went along with it.

Again, I purified the Chalice after Communion (poured water in, swirled the Chalice, then drank the remains of the Precious Blood).** I’ve been instituted as an EMHC (although I have not acted as such in at least a year),** so I felt like I had some authority to purify the Chalice.

It seemed okay to me; I guess the intinction was just too subtle for me to catch the first time.

No. You have been commissioned as a EMHC (not instituted as an acolyte) and are thus not able to purify the sacred vessels per the Church documents.

 

[japhy]

The local ordinary in this case has said only one is acceptable in his diocese. He clearly has that authority.

How is that clear?

 

[colliric]

I altar served again today, and so did some “investigation”

The Priest receives both the Host and the Precious Blood at the same time- via intinction. It seemed legitimate so I went along with it.

Again, I purified the Chalice after Communion (poured water in, swirled the Chalice, then drank the remains of the Precious Blood). I’ve been instituted as an EMHC (although I have not acted as such in at least a year), so I felt like I had some authority to purify the Chalice.

It seemed okay to me; I guess the intinction was just too subtle for me to catch the first time.

Is this permissible in your diocese? last I checked Intinctioning was a liturgical abuse, correct me if im wrong.

 

[Phemie]

Is this permissible in your diocese? last I checked Intinctioning was a liturgical abuse, correct me if im wrong.

Do you mean intinction in general or intinction by the priest for his own communion? The GIRM says that he is to drink reverently from the chalice.

Self-intinction by the people is forbidden but the priest can certainly distribute by intinction.