Liturgical Abuse - What to do about it?

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JBuck, thanks for the response. I have done a little (okay, a lot) of research on this, and can’t find anything that would even come close to calling this “interruption” acceptable. Even a priest EDIT called it “at best sloppy.” Can you give me a citation to something that would suggest otherwise? Thanks, and God bless…
 
Cjaubert, I was at that Mass and can clarify a few things.

The occasion was the annual Scout Sunday Mass, celebrated in many parishes, in many dioceses. Some of the boys in the church-sponsored Boy Scout Troop were presented with the Ad Altare Dei emblem.

Though Monsignor was not the celebrant, he was in the procession and wore an alb rather than a cassock since he was participating in the liturgy – the Liturgy of the Word. While the visiting celebrant and the deacon ascended to the chairs on the sanctuary, he sat in a chair in front of the first row of pews on the side. Let me note that we had a visiting priest at that Mass because the parochial vicar was out of the country and apparently according to Canon Law, a priest cannot celebrate more than 3 Masses a day. With the Sunday Vigil Mass included in the count, the parish has 4.

The recollections of Jbuck919’s experiences seem to indicate the timing of the awards ceremony was copasetic.

Finally, why did Monsignor return into the church attired in his collar? To tell the lady at the soundboard to make an adjustment to the sound system. Apparently, he noticed something during Mass. The soundboard is situated on the other side of the church from where he exited, so a reentrance would be necessary. Furthermore, it was judicious of him to re-enter wearing his collar rather than the liturgical clothing since his participation in the liturgy had concluded. Anyway after advising the lady at the soundboard, he turned around and left. He did not wander around, he did not nod to or acknowledge anyone in the pews – his only purpose in re-entering the church was to communicate about the sound system.
 
Dutch, thanks for the response, and I am glad you were there at the Mass in question. Do you recall that immediately preceding that Mass, two parishioners gave a little skit about Marriage Encounter? This skit started about 3 minutes before Mass, and ended IMMEDIATELY preceding the procession. During this time, I am of the belief that the parishioners should be preparing for the Mass, not being entertained by a skit. In fact, my eight year old turned to my wife during this skit while he was praying and said, “Mommy, isn’t this a Mass?”

As for JBuck, I, with respect, disagree that there is anything copasetic about a break between the homily and the profession of faith for a boy scout ceremony (or any other ceremony). This time is, as I understand it, a time for us to contemplate the Gospel message and the homily silently, and then to profess our agreement with it.

Any break in the Mass, if there is to be a break at all, is to come between the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist, NOT between the homily and the profession of faith, both of which are within the Liturgy of the Word. Further, any break at the appropriate time, as I understand it, is to be sacramental in nature, not something like a boy scout ceremony.

Think of it this way. If a four minute boy scount ceremony is not, in and of itself, impermissible, would an eight minute ceremony also be acceptable? Would a 15 minute ceremony be acceptable? What about if they passed out scout hats to everyone to wear, to make the scouts happy? What if they added a song or two, or had everyone, together, recite the scout pledge? I don’t mean to be flip, but interruptions are either acceptable or they are not, and if this one is acceptable, then the others should be, as well.

One more point. As I understand it, all Catholics, all over the world, are supposed to be celebrating the same Mass each Sunday. Did every Mass all over the world have a scout ceremony between the homily and the profession of faith? If not, why not? Again, I am not trying to be flip, but, as I see it, I, as a Catholic, am entitled to an authentic Mass in formance with Church teaching. Period. I am not a customer or client of the church who needs to be entertained.

The real point of my post was not to engage in debate over what feels right or what our experiences have been (no doubt we have all had unique experiences), but to determine, based on the GIRM or some other official source, what is permitted and what is not permitted during Mass. That JBuck did something in a school does not make it right (or wrong). The question is, does the Church permit what occurred? It is either permissible or not permissible. I still have not seen any answer to this question, here or anywhere else, and I conclude that indeed there is no right to interrupt the Mass between the homily and the profession of faith for a boy scout ceremony.

I do not mean ANY disrespect with this post, either to the Monsignnor or to any other posters. Rather, I am looking to learn. I remain of the belief that the boy scount ceremony was not proper, but, at the same time, I anxiously await some evidence that I am wrong, in the form of a citation to the GIRM or other source. Put another way, my mind is made up, but it’s not closed.

Thanks to all who have posted here so far, and, Dutch, I will answer your other questions by private email as soon as I get back tonight. God bless you all…
 
I don’t recall any Marriage Encounter information being presented prior to Mass, but that’s my fault – we arrived later than usual. Though Mass had not yet started when we seated ourselves, I don’t recall anyone making announcements. Since I disagree with your other characterizations of that particular Mass, I’m not certain if I had been there early enough, I would have agreed with your assessment of it as a skit.

But the good news is that I did find a source regarding the presentation of the awards in question and perhaps you could email the chaplain listed for a citation in the GIRM. His email address is on this page: peoria-dccs.org/contacts/contact.html.

Nonetheless, here’s the link to the main page of the Diocese of Peoria Committee on Scouting regarding youth emblems: peoria-dccs.org/top%20tabs%20pages/youth%20emblems.html. (If the link doesn’t work, click on the Youth Emblems tab at the top.)

See the upper right quadrant entitled, “Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts and Venture Patrol”. The last sentence in that paragraph has another link entitled, “Sample Mass liturgical texts for award presentation”; here is the link: peoria-dccs.org/documents/Mass_ritual.html

The page details the ritual for presenting medals at Mass and cites this source:
"This is an adaptation of the “Order of those Receiving Ecclesiastical Honors” which is found on page 825 of the Book of Blessings. This order is intended for use on occasions when ecclesiastical honors are conferred. The blessing may also be used for the conferral of diocesan and parish honors [par. 1941], which would cover these types of religious awards.”

The order of the ritual is then outlined. In particular, I find these points to have coincided with what I witnessed:
“Being that these are religious awards, it is most appropriate that they be presented in a Liturgical setting: during Mass; in a celebration of the word; or during Morning or Evening Prayer.”

“When presenting at Mass, The Mass of the day is celebrated.”

“The Blessing takes place after the homily.”
…
“Then the priest confers the medals to the Scouts. He could either pin them on the scouts, or just hand the medals and cards to them.”

“[Optional: The priest may invite the congregation to show their approval.]”

Hopefully this information combined with a more thorough response from the DCCS chaplain will answer this question for you.
 
Very interesting stuff, Dutch, thanks. At first glance, this does indeed appear to suggest that there is something proper about the scout ceremony, although, frankly, I do not recall it being ecclesiastical in nature (I’m not saying it was not - I just don’t recall). Regardless, what I also find interesting about this is, why didn’t anyone EDIT just say, “Of course, there is a ritual for presenting medals at Mass, and here is where it is approved”? Trust me, I asked several people about this and NONE knew anything about this. One priest in EDIT called this “sloppy,” another EDIT called it “illicit,” and a third in EDIT called it “abusive.” At the very least, it seems that the diocese in Peoria thinks it is okay, and, without anything definitive to the contrary, I must say that I may be wrong on this…

I will endeavor to find out more, if only because in reading the GIRM, I found nothing even close to allowing this. Maybe I’ll call Jimmy Akin and see what he says…

Thanks again for this insightful post.
 
Keep us posted.

If indeed it is allowed, please follow up with the three brethren priests who called it “sloppy”, “illicit”, and “abusive”.
 
Dutch, that would only be fair…

I should add that I spent a great deal of time Googling anything I could think of on this of last night, and the ONLY think I found was in the Peoria diocese. I’m not saying I don’t buy it, but I was looking for ANYTHING close to this ANYWHERE. I will remain open to the idea that I, and the three priests mentioned, are wrong, but I also remain skeptical.

Thanks again, very much, for finding this, and, oh, would you mind responding to my private emails? God bless…
 
I agree, it seems that not too many organizations are interested in posting on their web sites the order of the liturgy when presenting religious medals to Boy Scouts. But the dearth of information on the Internet doesn’t deny its existence in other sources.

Try these:
  • The Monsignor who presented the medals in an order of liturgy which agreed with one credible Internet source that we did find.
  • The National Catholic Committee on Scouting (nccs-bsa.org/)). There is a Contacts page with the national officers listed. Also, they have a document with suggestions for various liturgies when recognizing emblem recipients: nccs-bsa.org/doc/ReligiousEmblemRecipientRecognition.doc.
  • The Diocesan Catholic Committee on Scouting for the Archdiocese of Galveston-Houston (dccs-dgh.org/contact.html)). They have a contacts page as well.
 
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Dutch01:
Nonetheless, here’s the link to the main page of the Diocese of Peoria Committee on Scouting regarding youth emblems: peoria-dccs.org/top%20tabs%20pages/youth%20emblems.html. (If the link doesn’t work, click on the Youth Emblems tab at the top.)

Hopefully this information combined with a more thorough response from the DCCS chaplain will answer this question for you.
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I looked at the document from the Peoria diocese and saw that they had written this about the presentation of Scout medals:

This is an adaptation of the “Order of those Receiving Ecclesiastical Honors” which is found on page 825 of the Book of Blessings. This order is intended for use on occasions when ecclesiastical honors are conferred. The blessing may also be used for the conferral of diocesan and parish honors [par. 1941], which would cover these types of religious awards.

I have a few objections. First, this document is peculiar to the Diocese of Peoria, not the entire Church or even the Church in America. Thus this norm cannot be extended to other dioceses.

Second, any Scouts award is not a “diocesan” or “parish” honor; it is given by authority of the Boy Scouts of America, not by any diocesan or parish authority. Although it is a religious award, even Catholic, it is not an ecclesiastical honor. This adaptation seems to arbitrarily extend the jurisdiction of the official rubrics supplied by Rome, which is illicit.

Next, this adaptation is, quite simply, an adaptation. You cannot find this in the official liturgical books, thus the only way that this practice could be acceptable is if it gained the recognitio of the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments (CDWDS) on behalf of the Apostolic See. Any deviation from the written liturgical standards which seeks the recognitio must first go to the national bishop’s conference, who will then ask Rome for the recognitio.

It is absolutely illicit for a single bishop, and even an entire Conference of Bishops, to permit experimentation regarding the official liturgical rubrics. The following paragraphs are from the CDWDS Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum, approved by John Paul II, which deals with liturgical abuse.
As early as the year 1970, the Apostolic See announced the cessation of all experimentation as regards the celebration of Holy Mass and reiterated the same in 1988. Accordingly, individual Bishops and their Conferences do not have the faculty to permit experimentation with liturgical texts or the other matters that are prescribed in the liturgical books. In order to carry out experimentation of this kind in the future, the permission of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments is required. It must be in writing, and it is to be requested by the Conference of Bishops. In fact, it will not be granted without serious reason. As regards projects of inculturation in liturgical matters, the particular norms that have been established are strictly and comprehensively to be observed.
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**All liturgical norms that a Conference of Bishops will have established for its territory **in accordance with the law are to be submitted to the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments for the recognitio, without which they lack any binding force.
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cf Redemptionis Sacramentum, paragraphs 27-28
 
Fidei, Thanks VERY much for the insightful and complete answer. Your answer, which certainly seems persuasive, is really the first real answer to my question. Again, my point was, this is either licit or not licit. I admit being troubled, at first, by the Peoria document, but as my later post said, I could not find a single thing about it anywhere else. You have cleared this up, at least for now. I have emailed the Chaplain there for more information, including a reference to the GIRM that would support what was done. I will post that answer here, if I get it. Thanks again…
 
Fidei Defensor, I did not intend the Peoria link to be an answer, but rather a starting point for further research. Since it was the only publicly accessible information on the Internet referencing the presentation of Ad Altare Dei medals and was of the same format to the Mass in question, I offered that link as well as the contact page for further elucidation from the Chaplain. It sounds like CJAubert has that part of the research under control – that is, putting the onus on the organization that posted it to cite where in the GIRM this is permissible.

CJAubert, I look forward to the responses you may get from any of the Chaplains or even Jimmy Akin. As for me, I accomplished what I wanted to do – that is to clarify your publicly posted presuppositions on why the Monsignor did not concelebrate and why he returned into the church. For that, I’m thankful that I attended the Mass in question and came across your posting.
 
Here is a “cut and paste” of an email I sent to the Chaplain in Peoria early Sunday morning. No response as of now:

“Father, I send this email with the utmost in respect, asking your help and guidance. There was a cub scout ritual performed at a regular Sunday Mass here recently, between the homily and the Profession of Faith. I do not believe this is a permissible deviation in a normal Mass, and I began to investigate it. I found NOTHING for about four weeks, until someone directed me to the following link on the Internet in Peoria about a Ritual for Presenting Medals at Mass, as it relates to scouting. That link (peoria-dccs.org/documents/Mass_ritual.html ) is “cut and pasted” below. I cannot find ANYTHING else about this in ANY other diocese, and three priests here in Houston disagree that it is permissible. Could you please tell me where the GIRM (or another official Church document) permits this ritual at a regular Sunday Mass? Thank you, and God bless.”
 
CJAubert, on Zenit’s website I found a question similar to yours which points to *Redemptionis Sacramentum * for the answer.

Here is the link: zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=53436.

It can be found on the bottom half of the page; searching on the text “Joining of Various Rites with the Celebration of Mass” will help locate its position. Pasted below is the response.

Another correspondent asked with regard to No. 75 on “Joining of Various Rites with the Celebration of Mass.”

The reader asked about the appropriateness of including within the celebration of Mass a commissioning “service,” for example, the commissioning of newly qualified instructors at the end of their teacher-training course. If appropriate, at which point in the celebration of Mass should the commissioning take place?

The instruction says:

“On account of the theological significance inherent in a particular rite and the Eucharistic Celebration, the liturgical books sometimes prescribe or permit the celebration of Holy Mass to be joined with another rite, especially one of those pertaining to the Sacraments.[157] The Church does not permit such a conjoining in other cases, however, especially when it is a question of trivial matters.”

While I do not know what a commissioning service entails, the Church already has an “Order for the Blessing of Students and Teachers” which could probably serve this purpose as the rubrics foresee the possibility of slightly adapting the prayers to diverse circumstances.

This rite is among those permitted at Mass and instructions as to how to insert it after the homily may be found in the Book of Blessings, Nos. 526-529.

If the “commissioning service” is similar to a graduation, involving the handing-over of degrees and certificates, then it would be inappropriate to include it within Mass.

Do you agree that the Mass in question was one that was celebrated with another rite as allowed by the liturgical books?

I think the remaining questions are - is the Ad Altare Dei emblem an eccelesiastical honor and who has the authority to determine it if so?

Are there any other questions you would you like to see answered?
 
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cjaubert:
Yes, I am in GH diocese, and I have heard that Archbishop Fiorenza (God bless him) is not the most orthodox Archbishop in history. I have also heard that Bishop DiNardo is VERY strict on liturgy, but, frankly, he has a LOT of work to do. This place is amazing (and I’m not sure that was a compliment).
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I’m sure you didn’t mean to mention the diocese specifically - somewhat uncharitable.
 
**A point of order in this discussion:
**
While those wishing to contribute to the thread are free to do so, let us in charity edit out the names of particular dioceses and/or specific locations.
 
The first part of a commentary from Zenit, July 27, 2004, responds to a particular situation in which liturgical norms were violated, but then goes on to inform how the liturgy may be adapted to special circumstances.

Here is the link: zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=57466. To find it on the web page, search for the text, “Follow-up: Substituting “Lamb of God”. Pasted below is the second part of the commentary.

]“All the same, some readers sincerely desire to know what means there are to adapt the liturgy to special circumstances.

First it is crucial to grasp the essence of liturgy as participation in the Church’s universal worship. What gives importance to our particular circumstances is the chance to offer them together with Christ’s eternal sacrifice in the liturgy. The liturgy gives our circumstances meaning – not vice versa.

This is essential in understanding and joyfully embracing the necessary limits imposed by liturgical participation.

Once this is grasped, then the true possibilities of adaptation opened up by the liturgy may be fully capitalized on. **This requires gaining a thorough knowledge of the liturgical norms and of the possibility of incorporating other liturgical rites which are often underused. ** …

From this, it seems to me the Mass in question was one in which the liturgical norms were followed.
 
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Dutch01:
From this, it seems to me the Mass in question was one in which the liturgical norms were followed.
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Which part exactly are you reffering to? After reading the article, I don’t see how the norms were followed.
 
Per Redemptionis Sacramentum #75, “Joining of Various Rites with the Celebration of Mass” - the “Order of those Receiving Ecclesiastical Honors” found in the Book of Blessings was used as instructed – that is, insert this blessing after the homily.
 
Note: the article posting was edited, I believe it was due to the lack of a code number for the Zenit.org reference. Here is the code: ZE04072722, dated 2004-07-27. Or perhaps it was edited for its length, if so, here’s an excerpt of the bottom portion that was omitted:

"On some occasions, selections from the Book of Blessings may be incorporated into the Mass to enhance a particular moment, such as the blessing of pilgrims on their departure or return, or the blessing of students and teachers at the beginning of the school year.

Thus the liturgy itself offers many possibilities to adapt to particular circumstances while remaining in full harmony with the mind and heart of the Church.”

Perhaps reading the entire commentary through the link would be the best bet.
 
Fidei Defensor,
I meant the Mass that CJAubert & I both attended, not the one in mentioned in the first part of the commentary.
 
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