Liturgical abuse? When should EMHC's approach the altar area?

[Jakub]

I have not heard bells nor smelled incense in 30 years…

james

 

[otjm]

Since the priest is not to leave the sanctuary during the Mass (with minor exceptions), then what is one to do when the tabernacle is in the chapel and the Mass is in the main part of the Church, and there is no deacon or priest otherwise available to retreive previousl consecrated hosts?

There comes a point where there may be more hosts previously consecrated than are needed for other than Mass distribution. The law is not made to cover every last possiblity, nor is it intended to make things impossible.

It would seem that an EMHC could retreive them from the tabernacle in the chapel, bring them to the priest who could then distribute to other cibioria, receive, and then the EMHCs could enter the sanctuary to receive.

Is there a specific law allowing thus? Not as far as I can see.

Does that mean it is forbidden ( or to use the popular term - is it an “abuse”?" I think not.

If, however, the tabernacle is within the sanctuary, then it would seem that it would be the priest who would retreive it.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Since the priest is not to leave the sanctuary during the Mass (with minor exceptions), then what is one to do when the tabernacle is in the chapel and the Mass is in the main part of the Church, and there is no deacon or priest otherwise available to retreive previousl consecrated hosts?

There comes a point where there may be more hosts previously consecrated than are needed for other than Mass distribution. The law is not made to cover every last possiblity, nor is it intended to make things impossible.

It would seem that an EMHC could retreive them from the tabernacle in the chapel, bring them to the priest who could then distribute to other cibioria, receive, and then the EMHCs could enter the sanctuary to receive.

Is there a specific law allowing thus? Not as far as I can see.

Does that mean it is forbidden ( or to use the popular term - is it an “abuse”?" I think not.

If, however, the tabernacle is within the sanctuary, then it would seem that it would be the priest who would retreive it.

The problem you mention is created by another “abuse” or irregularity. The parish should have a separate chapel with the tabernacle only if the main church is used for a large number of weddings, funerals, and or is a tourist attraction, making private Euhcaristic prayer difficult. Otherwise the tabernacle should be in the main sancturay.

 

[otjm]

The problem you mention is created by another “abuse” or irregularity. The parish should have a separate chapel with the tabernacle only if the main church is used for a large number of weddings, funerals, and or is a tourist attraction, making private Euhcaristic prayer difficult. Otherwise the tabernacle should be in the main sancturay.

Well, I kinda think it is not an abuse; I have seen the directory as to where the tabernacle may be and that includes a suitable chapel.

Our church is in the half-round, and as one enters, the chapel is off to the left. It holds about 35-40 people, and is the chapel we use for perpetual adoration. And as the rules say there is to be one tabernacle, that is where it is.

No, I cannot quote the document, but I have seen it often enough that I do not doubt the validity of where the tabernacle is. Further, if you go to Europe, you will find many of the much older churches and cathedrals were designed in a somewhat similar fashion - that is, with the tabernacle off to one side, often in a cove - like chapel area.

So I disagree wtih you that it is an abuse or irregularity.

Further, the chapel is much more conducive to 24 hour adoration as it is much smaller than what would be a more hugh and empty space.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Well, I kinda think it is not an abuse; I have seen the directory as to where the tabernacle may be and that includes a suitable chapel.

Our church is in the half-round, and as one enters, the chapel is off to the left. It holds about 35-40 people, and is the chapel we use for perpetual adoration. And as the rules say there is to be one tabernacle, that is where it is.

No, I cannot quote the document, but I have seen it often enough that I do not doubt the validity of where the tabernacle is. Further, if you go to Europe, you will find many of the much older churches and cathedrals were designed in a somewhat similar fashion - that is, with the tabernacle off to one side, often in a cove - like chapel area.

So I disagree wtih you that it is an abuse or irregularity.

Further, the chapel is much more conducive to 24 hour adoration as it is much smaller than what would be a more hugh and empty space.

We are not talking about a Perpetual Adoration Chapel with the Blessed Sacrament exposed in a monstrance. We are talking about placing the main tabernacle outside the main sanctuary, and what necessitates this.

 

[Brendan]

Further, if you go to Europe, you will find many of the much older churches and cathedrals were designed in a somewhat similar fashion - that is, with the tabernacle off to one side, often in a cove - like chapel area…

You are correct, it was very common for Cathedrals and larger Churches to have the tabernacles off in one side. Those side altars were where the majority of Masses were actually said ( the priests required daily Masses and the daily Masses for the faithful)

Thus the tabernacle was located in the place where the majority of the Masses were said. Is that true of your church as well?

In addition, when the Main altar was used, it was a priest or deacon who reposed the Blessed Sacrament in the Tabernacle.

You are correct that Church law does allow for the Tabernacle to be located outside the main sanctuary. But that does not remove the obligation of the priest or deacon to be the one who reposes the Blessed Sacrament.

 

[otjm]

We are not talking about a Perpetual Adoration Chapel with the Blessed Sacrament exposed in a monstrance. We are talking about placing the main tabernacle outside the main sanctuary, and what necessitates this.

Your comment was that it was an abuse or irregularity. We did not place the tabernacle in the chapel to provide 24 hour adoration; the chapel was there first, and so was the tabernacle. Adoration started several years later.

My comment was that it was and is within the guidelines by the Church that it be placed in a chapel, as one of several possibilites. I stand by my comment that having it in the chapel is not an abuse or irregularity, but within the documents.

 

[otjm]

You are correct, it was very common for Cathedrals and larger Churches to have the tabernacles off in one side. Those side altars were where the majority of Masses were actually said ( the priests required daily Masses and the daily Masses for the faithful)

Thus the tabernacle was located in the place where the majority of the Masses were said. Is that true of your church as well?

By numbers, yes. We have daily Mass in the chapel, except when the school has Mass (Wednesday), and for weekend Masses it is in the main church. The school is of very recent addition (a couple of years); prior to that all weekday Masses were in the chapel (with the exceptions of funerals).

In addition, when the Main altar was used, it was a priest or deacon who reposed the Blessed Sacrament in the Tabernacle.

You are correct that Church law does allow for the Tabernacle to be located outside the main sanctuary. But that does not remove the obligation of the priest or deacon to be the one who reposes the Blessed Sacrament.

However, as I noted, the law rpovides that the priest is not to leave the sanctuary. Thus the issue.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

By numbers, yes. We have daily Mass in the chapel, except when the school has Mass (Wednesday), and for weekend Masses it is in the main church. The school is of very recent addition (a couple of years); prior to that all weekday Masses were in the chapel (with the exceptions of funerals).

However, as I noted, the law rpovides that the priest is not to leave the sanctuary. Thus the issue.

Then we are not thinking of the same thing. I’m talking of when the tabernacle is moved to a separate chapel away from the main sanctuary. Just for the sake of moving the tabernacle out of the sanctuary to what might be termed a Eucharistic prayer chapel. Where there is not perpetual exposition of the Blessed Sacrament or an altar where daily Mass is celebrated.

 

[Sure]

You are correct, it was very common for Cathedrals and larger Churches to have the tabernacles off in one side. Those side altars were where the majority of Masses were actually said ( the priests required daily Masses and the daily Masses for the faithful)

Thus the tabernacle was located in the place where the majority of the Masses were said. Is that true of your church as well?

In addition, when the Main altar was used, it was a priest or deacon who reposed the Blessed Sacrament in the Tabernacle.

You are correct that Church law does allow for the Tabernacle to be located outside the main sanctuary. But that does not remove the obligation of the priest or deacon to be the one who reposes the Blessed Sacrament.

Do you have documentation for this (the bolded part)? I agree with you. I just can’t find anything that clearly states such a thing.

Thanks!

 

[Sure]

Then we are not thinking of the same thing. I’m talking of when the tabernacle is moved to a separate chapel away from the main sanctuary. Just for the sake of moving the tabernacle out of the sanctuary to what might be termed a Eucharistic prayer chapel. Where there is not perpetual exposition of the Blessed Sacrament or an altar where daily Mass is celebrated.

It is permissible for the tabernacle to be located in a separate Eucharistic chapel that is attached to the main church.

See below in the General Instruction:

1. It is more in keeping with the meaning of the sign that the tabernacle in which the Most Holy Eucharist is reserved not be on an altar on which Mass is celebrated.(128)

Consequently, it is preferable that the tabernacle be located, according to the judgment of the Diocesan Bishop,

Either in the sanctuary, apart from the altar of celebration, in a form and place more appropriate, not excluding on an old altar no longer used for celebration (cf. above, no. 303);

Or even in some chapel suitable for the faithful’s private adoration and prayer(129) and which is organically connected to the church and readily visible to the Christian faithful.

 

[Jakub]

How many Tabernacles are visible to the faithful when at Church/Mass…

" readily visible to the Christian faithful."

Not many…this question would be suitable for a poll and I would wager a root beer float that not visible would win.

 

[otjm]

How many Tabernacles are visible to the faithful when at Church/Mass…

" readily visible to the Christian faithful."

Not many…this question would be suitable for a poll and I would wager a root beer float that not visible would win.

Ours is; there are 4’ tall windows in the wall between the chapel and the main body of the church.