Liturgical Abuse?

[CatholicsRock1]

Hi! At my school today we had a memorial service (not a Mass) for one of the staff that had passed away over the Christmas break. Two things concerned me. 1) A Scholastic (person in formation for the order) was sitting WITH the priests at the altar (he’s not a deacon, and he does this during Mass as well). 2) They had an incense bowl ON the altar. Then when they put the incense in the bowl the priest did not bless it. I was just wondering if any would be considered liturgical abuses, or not…

Christ’s Peace in this Christmas Season!

 

[surritter]

Since altar boys can sit with the priest, my view is that everything’s cool on the first point. The notion of an incense “bowl” sounds a little new-agey, but since it’s not a Mass or formal liturgical ceremony like benediction I don’t know what document to cite that says it must be a thurible.

 

[CatholicsRock1]

Since altar boys can sit with the priest, my view is that everything’s cool on the first point. The notion of an incense “bowl” sounds a little new-agey, but since it’s not a Mass or formal liturgical ceremony like benediction I don’t know what document to cite that says it must be a thurible.

Thanks!!! I must just be too conservative.

 

[surritter]

No … stay the way you are. Any young person who has enough gut feeling to notice stuff like that is someone demonstrating love for our Church!

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

This was a memorial service, not a Mass. Memorial services are not liturgies, therefore there cannot be liturgical abuses.

 

[surritter]

Although even outside of liturgies, there could be ways to use the altar that are not respectful. That’s probably what the OP meant.

 

[Filii_Dei]

This was a memorial service, not a Mass. Memorial services are not liturgies, therefore there cannot be liturgical abuses.

Masses are not the only form of liturgy. Liturgy can take many forms that does not have to be a Mass. This includes memorial services, and the unfortunately oft-ignored Liturgy of the Hours.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Hi! At my school today we had a memorial service (not a Mass) for one of the staff that had passed away over the Christmas break.

OK, since it wasn’t a Mass then we’re not dealing with the regular rules of Mass.

1. A Scholastic (person in formation for the order) was sitting WITH the priests at the altar (he’s not a deacon, and he does this during Mass as well).

It depends on the layout of the space. Lectors and EMHC sometimes sit in space near the presider.
And since this is a prayer service there’s no such thing as concelebration so to some degree it can be set up in almost any format.

1. They had an incense bowl ON the altar. Then when they put the incense in the bowl the priest did not bless it. I was just wondering if any would be considered liturgical abuses, or not…

While we should always be careful about what we put on the altar and the message it sends, this does not seem to be abusive. It might not be the best idea, but I wouldn’t classify it as an abuse.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Since altar boys can sit with the priest, my view is that everything’s cool on the first point. The notion of an incense “bowl” sounds a little new-agey, but since it’s not a Mass or formal liturgical ceremony like benediction I don’t know what document to cite that says it must be a thurible.

The incense bowls are left over from the 70’s and 80’s and have generally been fazed out in most places. I’ve seen them at the Cathedrals in Los Angeles and Newark in the 90’s and also at various retreat houses in New England but less so over the past decade.

 

[jimrob]

It is common practice for a junior member of a religious order to assist the priest at Mass and other services. He is not supposed to sit in the presidential chair, but he can sit beside the principal celebrant even if there are other priests present.

It is unusual to place an incense burner on the altar. Even outside of Mass, the altar should be treated with respect and should not be used as a table. Having said that, I’ve known priests use the altar as a place to leave their glasses, mobile phones and remote control for the CD player. Had I been preparing the service, I would have placed a small table in front of the altar to accommodate the incense burner.

There is a slight difference between the use of incense in a bowl and in a thurible. Incensing with the thurible is a form of blessing and the incense is usually blessed immediately after adding it to the charcoal. With a fixed burner like a bowl, it is not usual to bless the incense. However, the GIRM is silent on the matter and it comes down to the preference of the priest.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

I have seen incense bowls placed on the altar as part of the rite of consecrating a new church building and altar.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

Where was this memorial service in the school? The gym or a chapel? Was it in fact an altar, a table acting as an altar, or just a table?

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I have seen incense bowls placed on the altar as part of the rite of consecrating a new church building and altar.

The Rite itself, for dedicating either a church or altar, calls for incense to be burnt on the altar.

 

[puzzleannie]

Hi! At my school today we had a memorial service (not a Mass) for one of the staff that had passed away over the Christmas break. Two things concerned me. 1) A Scholastic (person in formation for the order) was sitting WITH the priests at the altar (he’s not a deacon, and he does this during Mass as well). 2) They had an incense bowl ON the altar. Then when they put the incense in the bowl the priest did not bless it. I was just wondering if any would be considered liturgical abuses, or not…

Christ’s Peace in this Christmas Season!

you describe nothing that makes Mass illicit or invalidates the Eucharist. In fact, you are not even talking about Mass at all. Unless you know with absolute certainty the priest is doing something wrong, it is wisest to assume, because he is the priest and we are not, that he knows what he is doing. To second guess every minor action like this is to disturb your own participation in the Eucharist and distract you from where your attention ought to be, on our Lord. Unless the bishop has asked you to look for and report abuses in this parish, it is best for your own peace of mind that you ignore these things and focus all your attention to the sacrifice on the altar.

 

[promethius]

you describe nothing that makes Mass illicit or invalidates the Eucharist. In fact, you are not even talking about Mass at all. Unless you know with absolute certainty the priest is doing something wrong, it is wisest to assume, because he is the priest and we are not, that he knows what he is doing. To second guess every minor action like this is to disturb your own participation in the Eucharist and distract you from where your attention ought to be, on our Lord. Unless the bishop has asked you to look for and report abuses in this parish, it is best for your own peace of mind that you ignore these things and focus all your attention to the sacrifice on the altar.

I wish I could copy cut paste that into the brains of a great many people!