Liturgical Abuse

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I’m a college student that transfered from a conservative private college to a liberal public university. The Newman Center here on campus is VERY post-Vatican II. I think that their mass might be in fault of Liturgical Abuse, though I am not 100% sure.

First off, I don’t think I’ve heard them mention Our Lady’s name in any form once.
When I walk into mass, very few people are on their knees praying, most people are sitting in the seats talking/socializing with everyone and very few people genuflect upon walking in. All of the music is praise and worship music/black spirituals, and the choir is at the front just to the left of the altar. They sing a lot of the liturgy in praise and worship music. Very very very few people kneel at any point during mass, even after communion. During the Lord’s prayer EVERYONE holds hands. When I wouldn’t do that, the lady next to me had a horrified look on her face. When the priest gives his homily, he walks around like he’s a southern baptist preacher. The priest places the host in the hands of the “eucharistic ministers” before he says “this is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world…” and then the “eucharistic ministers” give themselves communion at the same time as the priest. There are probably 6 Eucharistic ministers for about 100-200 people. The concessional “hymn” is up beat and everyone claps along to it, and then it ends on a bang high note and everyone bursts into applause, before leaving the church without genuflecting.

So, I’m not sure if this is liturgical abuse or just really irreverent. Any help is appreciated:cool:
 
First of all, my sympathies. The college I went to had the same type of thing at it’s student parish. I rode my bike to another parish instead.

Most of what you described is actually just really bad taste, not necessarily liturgical abuse. Yes, a parish is allowed to play ****** music. They shoudn’t, but they are allowed to.

The same is true for holding hands for the Our Father. They are allowed to do so, but no one says that you have to.

The biggest one listed is the Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion ( the correct name) coming up before the priest himself has Communion, there is a whole thread listing the Vatican instructions on that

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=187894
 
none of the situations described in OP is a liturgical abuse with the possible exception of the order of the fraction and reception of communion by priest and others. The fact that this order is incorrect, and that people don’t kneel during the Eucharistic prayer is disobedience to the rubrics, but does not affect the validity or licitness of the Eucharist. In any case, OP is not in charge of liturgy, the priest is, so he should not concern himself, but conduct himself reverently and concentrate on participating in the Mass and adoring Christ in the Eucharist, and not allow himself to be disturbed (which is what Satan would love). If the situation becomes such that it is impossible to reverently participate in Mass at this chapel he should seek out a good parish church in the neighborhood.
 
puzzleannie said:
In any case, OP is not in charge of liturgy, the priest is, so he should not concern himself, but conduct himself reverently and concentrate on participating in the Mass and adoring Christ in the Eucharist, and not allow himself to be disturbed (which is what Satan would love). If the situation becomes such that it is impossible to reverently participate in Mass at this chapel he should seek out a good parish church in the neighborhood.
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Not quite true, as Catholics, disobedience to the Church should always be a disturbing thing. There is no circumstance were we are called to be comfortable with liturgical abuse.

John Paul II said that the faithful have a right to a liturgy said in accordance with the rubrics. Catholics should not sit idly by while Rights are bring violated, that is not what Christ would have us do.

The large majority of the post did NOT involve liturgical abuse, simply bad taste. But where abuse did occur, it is wise to follow the Vatican’s instructions on the subject.

Redemptionis Sacramentum
  1. In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion **and that all abuses **be thoroughly corrected. **This is *a most serious duty ***incumbent upon each and every one, and *all are bound to carry it *out without any favoritism.
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Does this Newman Center have some kind of liturgy committee? Perhaps you could join it and have some (name removed by moderator)ut into these matters that bother you. My experience in most parishes is that there aren’t enough people willing to join in and help where it’s needed, so your help would probably be appreciated. Then you’d be in a good position to suggest a different hymn or to ask what might be done to change the atmosphere in the church before Mass.

My impression in general is that Newman Centers have a more relaxed feeling about them than regular parishes. If that really doesn’t work for you, then perhaps you should try a nearby parish. You would lose the student-oriented activities that the Newman Center offers, but it might be better for your spiritual health. You’d have to work out the trade-offs to discern what’s best.
 
The part about the EMHC’s receiving communion prior to the fractioning is definitely wrong. I’m not clear as to whether or not anyone kneels during the Eucharistic prayer because that wasn’t specified.

If the Newman center is on campus then most likely there is not tabernacle with the Blessed Sacrament reserved so genuflecting would be highly improper. (But a bow towards the altar would be in order.) If this is a parish church then you need to figure out if the Blessed Sacrament is actually there.

The talking before Mass is irreverent but pretty common. The music is, at this point in time, a matter of taste. The hand-holding and clapping is… well… typical in many places.

Mentioning Our Lady would be nice but in and of itself doen’t really say much other than that this is different from your previous experiences.

I would agree with the poster who suggested you join whatever liturgy committee there might be. I wouldn’t expect to completely change things but you could at least present a different perspective.
 
what’s wrong with the priest walking around during the homily? I hate when priests just stand at the front and talk at you. when they walk around it gets you more involved. and SMHW is right about the tabernacle. In my Newman Center the tabernacle is not in the main body of the church, so genuflecting is not called for.
 
For guidance regarding what constitutes liturgical abuse, read Paul’s first letter to the church at Corinth, chapter 11:17-33. I wouldn’t be too concerned about such minor variations as you have mentioned. Concerning reverence toward the Eucharist, read especially verse 28 of the cited scripture. Each much judge himself alone, if we are to believe Paul.
Please note further that the genuflecting, kneeling, bowing, etc. prescribed in the rubrics is a holdover from the practices of the courts of the Roman emporers which were transfered into the Church under the assumption that God should not be treated in a less courtly fashion than the emporer.

Matthew
 
Thanks everyone.

First off, yes it is a parish and thus does have a tabernacle. Second, no, I am one of the very few people that kneel during the Eucharistic prayer. From all that I know they do not have a liturgical committee, but even so I am not Catholic yet, I am in the process of becoming Catholic (it’s definately happening tho, I was converted by some harcore Traditionalists), so I would not be able to be on the committee. I wish there was another parish nearby, unfortunately I do not have a car, but I am trying to find a way to get to an Eastern Rite church about 5 miles away.

I just want something more reverent towards the real presence of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. As someone coming into the Church, if I didn’t know any better, I would think “What’s the point?” if this isn’t much different than my pentecostal upbringing.

Thank you all again.
 
Brendan said:
Not quite true, as Catholics, disobedience to the Church should always be a disturbing thing. There is no circumstance were we are called to be comfortable with liturgical abuse.
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I did not say be comfortable with it. OP is not describing liturgical abuse in any case. What I said was do not become preoccupied with analyzing each and every action of the Mass and suspecting abuse, fretting about it, obsessing about it, and losing sight of the Mass itself. even worse is allowing this preoccupation lead one into attending Mass in schismatic churches.
 
If we wait to “fret” about it until we actually have invalid Masses–it may be to late.
 
Walking_Home said:
If we wait to “fret” about it until we actually have invalid Masses–it may be to late.
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Satan does not really care whether your participation at Mass is disrupted by actual abuse, or by fretting about potential abuse, or by Monday-morning quarterbacking the priest, as long as you ignore the reality of the Mass, suspect the validity of the Eucharist, watch your priest like a hawk ready to pounce on the first false move, and feel superior to most of your fellow parishioners, he will be quite content with the results.

I stand by my contention. At least 90% of the problems described in these forums under the heading “liturgical abuse” is no such thing, and these posts are presented by people who don’t really know the difference and are betraying that fact, to no purpose, and to no spiritual benefit. The only reason to be concerned is if there is a real danger that the validity and licitness of the Mass and the Eucharist are in question. I believe it poses a grave spiritual danger to the individual to enter church every Sunday looking for abuses. That person should certainly change parishes if that becomes his pattern.

threads like Bro SFOs recent series are much more helpful because they teach and instruct rather than just complaining.
 
puzzleannie said:
At least 90% of the problems described in these forums under the heading “liturgical abuse” is no such thing, and these posts are presented by people who don’t really know the difference and are betraying that fact, to no purpose, and to no spiritual benefit.
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I was just asking, since I am new to the faith, I needed some guidance.
 
puzzleannie said:
Satan does not really care whether your participation at Mass is disrupted by actual abuse, or by fretting about potential abuse, or by Monday-morning quarterbacking the priest, as long as you ignore the reality of the Mass, suspect the validity of the Eucharist, watch your priest like a hawk ready to pounce on the first false move, and feel superior to most of your fellow parishioners, he will be quite content with the results.
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We have gotten to the pt. puzzleannie–that people don’t have to watch like a hawk. Manipulation of the Mass —in various ways and forms–stands up and slaps people in the face. It happens and we can no longer—NOT acknowledge that it does undermine the Mass and within this our Faith. This has nothing to do with feeling superior to anyone. We can no longer continue with complacency that does nothing other than hide the problems that we have.
 
traditio88 said:
Unfortunately no, there’s an SSPX church about 20 miles away. Although the Eastern Rite mass about 5 miles away is much more traditional.
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Without any doubt, I would be at the SSPX Church. Rome itself has stated numerous times that the faithful are allowed to attend an SSPX Church. The only way you would not be allowed to attend is if you intention in doing so was to separate yourself from the Church, which obviously it isn’t.
 
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