Liturgical abuses at Mass today

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jay29

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Why is it so hard for me to find a catholic church that adheres to the missal/rubrics in my area? I live in the Binghamton, NY area.
Went to mass at a local church. First off, the procession was lead by a candle instead of a processinal cross/crucifix. I found that odd, even though a candle does represent Christ in the Easter/Paschal candle. Second, there was no sign of the Cross at the begining of mass, that is inexcusable. Third, the priest added his own words to the Eucharistic Prayer (3)! Just added as he pleased! If that wasn’t bad enough, he did/practiced intinction when he gave himself the Precious Body and Blood of Jesus! Dipped the particle from the large host into the chalice, consumed it, then distributed the Eucharist. I do not mean to sound picky, but the rules are the rules! The rules/order of the mass needs to be followed precisley. I would like to find a parish that treats the mass as it should be treated, solemly, as the most powerful prayer as well as the crux of our entire faith. Jay
 
Jay,

I know how frustrated you must be. I find it hard to stay focused when I notice abuses. However, the good news is that you received Jesus. He dwells in you. What could be better than that!?!?!
 
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jay29:
If that wasn’t bad enough, he did/practiced intinction when he gave himself the Precious Body and Blood of Jesus! Dipped the particle from the large host into the chalice, consumed it, then distributed the Eucharist.
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Why do you include this behavior as if it is an abuse? :confused:

tee
 
Jay29

Why don’t you try my church St. John the Evangelst Church on Binghamton’s southside. The pastor Fr. John Mikalajunas is a very devout priest who follows the holy father and the Church teachings. If you perfer a Latin Mass that’s said at 8:30AM every Sunday and on every other Thursday at 7PM. We have adoration every Thursday unless stated in the bulletin from 7AM - 7PM and it seems that Fr. John is always in the confessional.
You can contact the rectory at 607-722-0493 8:00 AM - 4:00 PM.👍
 
I thought intinction was not allowed anymore. Am I wrong to think this?
 
I’m gonna go out on a limb here, not knowing how this is going to go over, but this is my concern with threads like this:

First of all, I’m disturbed by this ‘holier-than-thou’ attitude these posts seem to reflect…I know this isn’t the intention, I really, do, but it’s how it comes across nonetheless.

Good golly, the U.S. Church is in trouble - there’s nothing new here. The good news is we have Pope Benedict XVI who, hopefully, in the right time, will put an end to all these discrepancies.

I get a sense of defeat in posts that point out the negatives in the Church, with a comparison to the TLM - I get that the TLM is a beautiful service but the NO can be just as beautiful if done correctly. I don’t believe the answer is to abandon all parishes with NO only for the TLM parishes.

I believe we are called to be patient and prayerful during these times. When you attend a mass by a priest who exercises abuses, pray especially hard for him that mass, especially at communion.

I also have a problem with a little knowledge placing one in the position to knock down one’s superior. While it’s wonderful that we faithful now have access to church documents and guidelines, I think we need to be a bit more humble about how we use the information. The priests did go through many years of school and training before being ordained. Look into the heart and spirit of the priest and at his works before condemning him for minor variances.

Anyway, I guess I’m of the thinking that you attend the church in your home community. If there are abuses use them to teach your children. Sign up for committees at the parish to try to change things from the inside (though I see from some of these threads that’s not possible at times).

The church is there forever (hopefully), but in our diocese, I don’t know about others, our priets are rotated out every 5 years, but the parishioners stay for a lifetime. I figure even if we get a ‘bad’ priest, the parishioners will ride him out, we will constantly pray for him and try to talk to him about his abuses.

It’s just that I know I personally struggle to be all that I can be for God…that I’m continually disappointing Him in one way or another even though I don’t intend to…that I just figure I’d be the last person to rag on a priest for his mistakes (when they are mistakes and not the willful misleading of his parishioners, there is a difference, I know). I’d have to go to every one of a particular priest’s services to get a feel for whether or not the error I witnessed was a one-time deal or an underlying belief…and honestly, I don’t have the time to watch over his shoulder like that when I’m not doing such a hot job looking over my own.

:twocents:
 
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YinYangMom:
First of all, I’m disturbed by this ‘holier-than-thou’ attitude these posts seem to reflect…I know this isn’t the intention, I really, do, but it’s how it comes across nonetheless.
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I would really rather people come here and vent than leave the church in disgust.
I did.

Thank the Holy Lord He led me back to a very orthodox parish or I would be Presbyterian right now.
 
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jay29:
I thought intinction was not allowed anymore. Am I wrong to think this?
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To the best of my knowledge, yes, you are mistaken to think so.

tee
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I would really rather people come here and vent than leave the church in disgust.
I did.

Thank the Holy Lord He led me back to a very orthodox parish or I would be Presbyterian right now.
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Well, I am all for the venting here…it really does help in a lot of ways. It helps the people doing the venting, and it really helps the rest of us who have good priests/parishes understand how fragile things are in the U.S. for the church.

I’ve been stunned by some of the stories here of parishes really lost…where the parishioners have taken over with their anti-magesterium positions and converted the priest to their way of doing things.

But after all the venting, I’d be happier to know the person doing the venting is going to ride it out and pray all the more fervently for guidance to that parish than to hear them vent and then talk about leaving to find another church.
 
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YinYangMom:
Well, I am all for the venting here…it really does help in a lot of ways. It helps the people doing the venting, and it really helps the rest of us who have good priests/parishes understand how fragile things are in the U.S. for the church.

I’ve been stunned by some of the stories here of parishes really lost…where the parishioners have taken over with their anti-magesterium positions and converted the priest to their way of doing things.

But after all the venting, I’d be happier to know the person doing the venting is going to ride it out and pray all the more fervently for guidance to that parish than to hear them vent and then talk about leaving to find another church.
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In some places, where they are closing or clustering parishes (like my area) leaving a parish for a more orthodox one is actually talking with your feet.
You can stay and ride it out, but in the end will that parish be left open because so many dissatified people stayed? Better they find a parish doing it right.
And like you said, pray, pray, pray.
 
I understand what you have said, Yingyangmom. However, according to church teaching, the congregation has a right to have mass said the correct way. Period. The priest has the Lectionary/Missal infront of him. Excusing the priest for not have made the sign of the cross in the begining of mass? I find that hard to accept. I expect it at every mass I attend. Catholic means universal. I should be able to attend mass anywhere on the planet and the only things that should be diffrent are the local language and the church decor. That’s it. The structure of the mass, as well as the language, when translated, should remain the same.

Look at the L.A. Diocese. They are out of control! Liturgical Dancers? I hope I never, ever, see them. Or some peace pipe smoking American Indian walking in front of the altar praying to his god during mass??? WOW!!! UNACCEPTIBLE!(These incidents are seen in pics in previous posts). Cardinal Mahoney sees nothing wrong. No wonder why he and the Vatican clash. How about those women who were “ordained” by “female Catholic Bishops” in Canada? Unfathonable. You are right. The church needs our prayers. I hope and pray that Pope Benedict XVI uses his power and authority to straighten things out. After all, he was/is known as God’s rottweiler. God Bless.
 
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tee_eff_em:
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jay29:
I thought intinction was not allowed anymore. Am I wrong to think this?
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To the best of my knowledge, yes, you are mistaken to think so.
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To clarify: I suspect you are misremembering that self-intinction (= self-communicating) by the faithful is prohibited.

However, the faithful may receive from a minister by intinction, and all priest celebrants are required to self-communicate, so there is no abuse in the practice you described.

(cf. GIRM #'s 285 and 287)

tee
 
I too am in favor of staying put in your local Parish. Parishes are defined geographically. We are to pray for our Priests to make or keep them holy.

And, while intinction is not ok for the laity, it’s fine for the priest himself.

But you’re right about adding or modifying the words of the Eucharistic Prayer. That’s an abuse that I hate to see happen! Christ deserves better!

CARose
 
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CARose:
And, while intinction is not ok for the laity, it’s fine for the priest himself.
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Intinction is fine for the laity – But not self-intinction/self-communincating.

tee
 
Michael Welter:
Jay,

I know how frustrated you must be. I find it hard to stay focused when I notice abuses. However, the good news is that you received Jesus. He dwells in you. What could be better than that!?!?!
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However what if that priest did not intend to change the bread and wine into the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus? Also, what if he did not intend to offer Him, present on the Altar to the Father in reparation for all sin?

The way some of these priests celebrate Mass there is reason to believe that what is happening is NOT MASS, THAT THEY DO NOT BELIEVE and DO NOT INTEND on doing what the Church does.

Ken
 
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kleary:
The way some of these priests celebrate Mass there is reason to believe that what is happening is NOT MASS, THAT THEY DO NOT BELIEVE and DO NOT INTEND on doing what the Church does.
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In a case like that , why not go back to the TLM exclusively?
According to the figures I saw, when you had the TLM exclusively in the Latin RCC, there were fewer marriage breakups. Also, were there as many scandals in 1930 as there are now?
 
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kleary:
However what if that priest did not intend to change the bread and wine into the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus? Also, what if he did not intend to offer Him, present on the Altar to the Father in reparation for all sin?

The way some of these priests celebrate Mass there is reason to believe that what is happening is NOT MASS, THAT THEY DO NOT BELIEVE and DO NOT INTEND on doing what the Church does.

Ken
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It is a very serious issue to impute to any priest a lack of intent to do as the Church directs during the Mass. Unless you have some *concrete * proof, such as the priest’s changing the words of Consecration, using invalid matter, or stating that he does not believe in transubstantiation, you might want to avoid speculating on the priest’s intentions.

You could ask the priest directly if he intends to do what the Church expects. That may put your mind at ease.
 
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stanley123:
In a case like that , why not go back to the TLM exclusively?
According to the figures I saw, when you had the TLM exclusively in the Latin RCC, there were fewer marriage breakups. Also, were there as many scandals in 1930 as there are now?
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Post hoc ergo propter hoc rides again. I prefer the TLM, but blaming the *Novus Ordo Missae * for societal changes when so many other factors need to be considered is not fair.

What about the effects of the media? The advance of relativism? Easy, inexpensive, no-fault divorce? Less stability in employment? The growth of materialism, especially when compared to the time of the Great Depression? Greater mobility?

It seems to me that these have more to do with divorce rates than the rite used for the Mass.
 
This is a good thread. I guess what I really wanted/needed to say is that mass is a very solem occasion and needs to be treated as such. Liturgical dancers? We do not need them. I do not need to see some kind of artsy band playing kumbya, all wearing long beards and long hair in a circle. I do not need to have priests putting there own spin on the mass and changing things at there own discretion. Admitting and omitting anything they want. I just want a straight up mass.

A little history about me. I am a convert from Eastern Orthodox. If anyone knows anything about Eastern Orthodoxy, the liturgy is heaven on earth. Solem chanting, clouds of incense, and wonderful icons! What a Holy Liturgy! You won’t find any new age bands or dancers there. However, I believe the Catholic Church is the true church founded by Jesus himself and that is the only reason I converted. I am just a little disgruntled with the mass.
 
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