liturgical abuses?

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angell1

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what liturgical abuses are common?

is it true that having readers and extraordinary ministers of communion on a regular basis is an abuse? like when different people are scheduled every week and rotate? i agree that if priests are available, then they should do it but that’s not always the case especially in larger parishes. it’s never the same people all the time though, fmost parishes i’ve been to, each person maybe got a turn about once a month or so. is that not supposed to be done though?

anything else?
 
angell1 said:
what liturgical abuses are common?

is it true that having readers and extraordinary ministers of communion on a regular basis is an abuse? like when different people are scheduled every week and rotate? i agree that if priests are available, then they should do it but that’s not always the case especially in larger parishes. it’s never the same people all the time though, fmost parishes i’ve been to, each person maybe got a turn about once a month or so. is that not supposed to be done though?

anything else?
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Why do you think any liturgical abuses are common?

And no, having readers and extraordinary ministers of communion on a regular basis does not make it an “abuse.” There can be readers at every Mass, nothing at all abusive about it. The need for Extraordinary Ministers will vary from Mass to Mass and parish to parish. Some people feel they are used too often.
 
agnes_therese said:
Why do you think any liturgical abuses are common?

And no, having reused if they are really neededaders and extraordinary ministers of communion on a regular basis does not make it an “abuse.” There can be readers at every Mass, nothing at all abusive about it. The need for Extraordinary Ministers will vary from Mass to Mass and parish to parish. Some people feel they are used too often.
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i ask because i always see people on this forum talking about liturgical abuses being common, but i’ve never noticed anything myself in my own city. i also read something in canon law that says they should be only used if they’re really needed. maybe i misunderstood something?
 
I think people see real abuses and remember them, keeping them in their memory (perhaps not on purpose) and then projecting onto contemporary events that might not otherwise arouse attention. Maybe. They could also know their stuff and see actual abuses pretty often. I don’t know of any parish (where I live anyway) that has enough Priests, especially when combined with most church’s designs being “three aisled.”

I believe you are correct on the “only when needed” part, but I don’t know what qualifies as need.
 
I don’t want to start a debate…
Short answer: people like what they like, and if it’s not to their liking, they will wave rubrics around.
Bottom line…the pastors make these calls…and we, as parishioners and employees, obey.
Some are slavishly obedient to the rubrics. I’m tolerant. Many are not. I don’t like to ascribe bad intent to those who do things differently.
But the bottom line is, it’s really not up to us. Unless you’re a priest.
 
angell1 said:
i ask because i always see people on this forum talking about liturgical abuses being common, but i’ve never noticed anything myself in my own city. i also read something in canon law that says they should be only used if they’re really needed. maybe i misunderstood something?
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There is nothing abusive about readers. Unless your parish happens to have instituted lectors (who are the ones meant to read the first and second readings), canon law allows men or women to do those readings. Only a deacon, priest or bishop may read the Gospel or deliver the homily.

EMHCs are a different kettle of fish. They are only supposed to be used if needed to prevent the Mass being unduly prolonged (This, however, is to be understood in such a way that a brief prolongation, considering the circumstances and culture of the place, is not at all a sufficient reason. – Redemptionis Sacramentum) or because of a lack of ordinary ministers (priest/deacon/bishop) or because Father is feeble or sick. Most parishes ignore that.
 
angell1 said:
i also read something in canon law that says they should be only used if they’re really needed. maybe i misunderstood something?
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That refers to Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, and the decision as to when and if they’re needed is left up to the pastor. As I said, some people feel they’re used too much. Since it’s left up to the discretion of the pastor, whether it’s an actual abuse is really a matter of opinion.
Now, if the priest is NOT distributing communion, and leaves it all to the EMHCs, that’s different, that’s definitely a violation.
 
agnes_therese said:
That refers to Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, ae for mass at a time. either the others are doing other masses, or have masses to do latering the daynd the decision as to when and if they’re needed is left up to the pastor. As I said, some people feel they’re used too much. Since it’s left up to the discretion of the pastor, whether it’s an actual abuse is really a matter of opinion.
Now, if the priest is NOT distributing communion, and leaves it all to the EMHCs, that’s different, that’s definitely a violation.
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well in my particular parish, we have three priests responsible for three churches, so usually only one is available for each mass. the is a concelerating deacon who helps out i believe, but in a mass of 1200 people, a couple of extra hands are needed i think. they are usually about 3-4 lay people that asisst, at the most
 
Well, as to the last one listed, Pope Francis did not follow it last year and I have read he is not following it this year. I have also read that the USCCB has given permission to the various dioceses to use women; and before anyone accuses them of doing that on their own, you might want to verify that they actually said it was permissible, and then check to see if that came from Rome as opposed to their own opinion.

Considering that the Pope has not indicated it is mandatory, then perhaps the language “should” is to be considered hortatory and not a command.
 
angell1 said:
what liturgical abuses are common?

is it true that having readers and extraordinary ministers of communion on a regular basis is an abuse? like when different people are scheduled every week and rotate? i agree that if priests are available, then they should do it but that’s not always the case especially in larger parishes. it’s never the same people all the time though, fmost parishes i’ve been to, each person maybe got a turn about once a month or so. is that not supposed to be done though?
anything else?
Click to expand...
No, these are allowed and are not abuses. However, these things were meant to assist the priest when needed, not to be a take over of liturgical functions by the laity. So, if the church has a lot of people for Mass, yes the extra people are probably necessary. In a small church or a weekday Mass that is only attended by 20 people, no the extraordinary ministers of communion are not necessary, although readers can still be used.
There are much more serious things that are liturgical abuse. For example, I have seen Masses where the consecrated hosts are passed around like cookies on a plate with everyone gathered around the altar. If a priest is changing words of the Mass to suit his own personal liking, that too is abuse.
 
agnes_therese said:
That is, indeed, a list of actions that are abuses when they happen, but I don’t see any source data to back up the website’s claim that they are “common.” Do you know if that is elsewhere on the website?
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Where does the site claim that they’re common? It only says “Most Common Liturgical Abuses”, meaning that, of the abuses that do happen, those are the ones that most often occur.
 
Phemie said:
EMHCs are a different kettle of fish. They are only supposed to be used if needed to prevent the Mass being unduly prolonged (This, however, is to be understood in such a way that a brief prolongation, considering the circumstances and culture of the place, is not at all a sufficient reason. – Redemptionis Sacramentum) or because of a lack of ordinary ministers (priest/deacon/bishop) or because Father is feeble or sick. Most parishes ignore that.
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I’m one of the people that feel they are used way too often.

I recall going to daily mass and there were 6 EMHCs and only about 12 of us in the pews! I guess we wouldn’t want to prolong the mass an extra 3 seconds?

Some Sundays I’ll see 5 EMHCs start walking up to the sanctuary and then they’re like “Oh no! There’s only 5 of us! We need a 6th person!” You can totally see a sense of panic!

This has always irritated me as you can tell. I’ve never been at a mass where (in my opinion) there was an extraordinary circumstance that called for more than 1 EMHC (to allow for Holy Communion under both species).
 
Can we start a movement? Get on the line with the priest. At one Mass I went to, the EMHC was a teenager. People avoided him to the point where I felt bad for him. It wasn’t a particularly traditionalist parish but I guess even the liturgically lax aren’t completely comfortable with receiving Communion from a child.

Sometimes it’s hard to switch lines but if not, I’ll get on the one with the priest, deacon, actual acolyte, or religious.
 
johnmann said:
Can we start a movement? Get on the line with the priest. At one Mass I went to, the EMHC was a teenager. People avoided him to the point where I felt bad for him. It wasn’t a particularly traditionalist parish but I guess even the liturgically lax aren’t completely comfortable with receiving Communion from a child.

Sometimes it’s hard to switch lines but if not, I’ll get on the one with the priest, deacon, actual acolyte, or religious.
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You’re sure it was a teenager? Because I was mistaken for a 14 year old when I was 24.

Even so, if at 16 you are old enough to be a godparent, then you should be old enough to be an EMHC if one is necessary.
 
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