Liturgical abuses

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When browsing this forum I constantly see people asking about ‘liturgical abuses’ which is quite interesting as I have never witnessed any in my life (admittedly not many years but still 😃 ). Save for Father X who said mass in 15 minutes and scandalised the parish by skimming the top of the water with his first finger at the lavabo. No lay ‘participation’ there in ANY form- they would slow things down too much. But I digress…

So I’m quite interested- what is the most irrereverently celebrated mass you’ve ever attended?And to even things up what was the best?
 
What is the most irrereverently celebrated mass you’ve ever attended?And to even things up what was the best? (Thank you for including this. I think you will be flooded with responses in the first category, though.) 😃
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Very little to report on the first, except that in a parish I regularly visited in Florida, the priest seemed to demonstrate a spirit of anger. He would carelessly slam/toss the items on the altar, never make eye contact with the congregation, and say the alleluia as though he was bored with it all (daily mass). I spent many hours in prayer for that priest, and happily I can say that his demeanor did change and he became quite pleasant and reverent at the altar. I’m trusting many others prayed as well.

Otherwise, he was not missing a beat (externally) as far as the liturgy was concerned, but it was obvious his heart was not there. The little devil in me wanted to take a picture of the scowl on his face and mail it to him as an awakener, but my angel side won out. 😛

I cannot remember a mass specifically that was the best, except to say that I always enjoy the solemn high mass of Christmas Eve or Easter Vigil, both with full choir as we celebrate the major mysteries of the Incarnation and Resurrection.

Carole
 
The worst case of liturgical abuse I have witnessed was when the priest (the pastor of the parish no less) instructed everyone to stand after the Sanctus and would not proceed with the Consecration until we had. I overheard him talking with the leader of the parish’s RCIA about how great it was how it wouldn’t be long before no one objected. (He was quite wrong. Several of us wrote to the Bishop and, not long after that, he read a letter from the Bishop clarifying that all must kneel from after the Sanctus until after the Great Amen.

The I have three best experiences.

1: The first time I attended the traditional Latin Mass according to the 1962 Missal. WOW! Actually, every subsequent time was just as great.

2: Attending the current liturgy at that same parish. The pastor was absolutely fantastic and reverence was plainly evident!

3: My current parish. I recently moved and was very happy to discover that my pastor offers the Mass the way it is supposed to be offered and with reverence.
 
I belonged to a parish that prided itself on its “creative” liturgy. Every week was a new experience. I had come from a Carmelite parish that was, of course, very orthodox.

Anyway, I moved to the new parish, was married there and my kids went to school there. As the parish and liturgy got further and further in left field, I felt myself losing any connection to what was going on during Mass. It seemed God was completely forgotten and Mass had turned into some kind of club meeting. The event that tore it for me was the Sunday that Father held up a Kaiser Roll at the Consecration. The people’s hosts were Concecrated in straw bread baskets and carried down to Communion by the EMs while the priest sat in a chair and watched. I don’t know what the hosts were made from, but they were sweet to the tongue.

Understand, that was only the event that tore it for me, it was not the only abuse. General absolution was given before every mass since Father didn’t consider confession to be necessary. Whatever your sins, he forgave them and you could go to Communion. I once asked him when I could go to confession since there were no set times and he told me it was unnecssary except in Lent. He said there would be a service during Lent where we would examine our conscience in a group setting and he would give general absolution and a general penance.

So I left the Church for many years. Another victim of Vatican II abuses. During that time, I never lost faith in God or the Church, just lost faith that the priests were doing things right. During Lent last year I stumbled upon the website of a TLM Chapel just a few miles from my house. I went and I was home. I no longer left mass mad and shaking my head. I worship with a community that joins with me in worshiping God and not each other. I have met the friendliest bunch of people who welcome all who attend and who have not broken down into cliques. It is good to be back.
 
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SnorterLuster:
So I left the Church for many years. Another victim of Vatican II abuses. .
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That’s a poor excuse to leave the Church. Nobody with a strong faith would leave the Church because they don’t like the Mass at their local church.
 
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thistle:
That’s a poor excuse to leave the Church. Nobody with a strong faith would leave the Church because they don’t like the Mass at their local church.
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You may consider it a poor excuse, but it is my excuse. I’ll guarantee you I was not alone. Many of my friends left around the time I did–most to become fundamentalist prostestant.

For me, and I suspect for many like me, the Mass is the Church. Faith and obedience are two different qualities. I think I had a lot of faith, little obedience.

But thanks for the welcome back Thistle. That is just one of the things about my old parish I loved. Like you, the lack of judgementalism.:rolleyes:
 
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thistle:
That’s a poor excuse to leave the Church. Nobody with a strong faith would leave the Church because they don’t like the Mass at their local church.
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That is really easy to say, (and I’m not sure you see how self rightous you sound) but many of us feel that the church left us with the innovations. We no longer felt a connection. We were left searching for some place to belong.

I thank God that he brought me home. When the local mass is less reverant than the Protestant service up the street, it gives one pause.

Thank God for Mother Angelica and her fight. We would never know what a mass should be without EWTN.
 
I guess you are all ultra traditionists stuck in time before Vatican II. I realise now I shouldn’t make any posts in threads like this as all traditionists (which are the minority of Catholics worldwide) consider everything after Vatican II as an abuse or an innovation so I will now bow out and stick to other threads. If you don’t accept what the Popes and Councils of Bishops have put forward then anything I say will certainly just antagonise you.
 
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thistle:
I guess you are all ultra traditionists stuck in time before Vatican II. I realise now I shouldn’t make any posts in threads like this as all traditionists (which are the minority of Catholics worldwide) consider everything after Vatican II as an abuse or an innovation so I will now bow out and stick to other threads. If you don’t accept what the Popes and Councils of Bishops have put forward then anything I say will certainly just antagonise you.
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I put myself into the Classification as a “Mother Angelica” Catholic, not an ultra traditionalist. I attend a Holy Mass that is under the guidelines of Vatican II without the innovations. In fact I just watched the Holy Mass on EWTN that had just about as much Latin as we do!

Gee Thistle, a little defensive there? When one cannot defend, insult. It’s the Modernist’s way!
 
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thistle:
so I will now bow out and stick to other threads.
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Hey Mr. Thistle don’t leave just yet. Stay and share your experience of the most reverent mass you’ve attended. 🙂
 
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AJV:
Hoy Mr. Thistle don’t leave just yet. Stay and share your experience of the most reverent mass you’ve attended. 🙂
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Okay. Last post. I consider all Masses (only been to NO Masses) I have attended to be reverent. I do not consider movement at sign of peace, or holding hands or hands out upturned at the Lord’s Prayer as abuses or innovations. If they were they would be stopped.
Because of my previous job I was fortunate to live in several countries apart from my home country and I can honestly say that the Masses in Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore, Philippines, Scotland, England and Germany that my family and I attended were all reverent.
My impression, and correct me if I am wrong, is that most of the complaints I read about in these forums seem to take place in USA and I really question if they are valid complaints.
 
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AJV:
So I’m quite interested- what is the most irrereverently celebrated mass you’ve ever attended?And to even things up what was the best?
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The “best” masses I ever ever attended were those where my former Pastor, Fr. Anthony Moore OFM, was assigned (St Joseph, Winsted CT.) From the granduer of the Easter Vigil to the simplicity of daily Mass, those deepened my faith because of his unwaivering fidelity to the Church. Those were good years as organist with him as Pastor.

The other place was St Joseph in Lake Linden, MI. Fr. Erik Olson always sang the Mass with the congregation.

My third favorite particular Mass was one most people don’t get to participate in. After our Church was renovated, the Archbishop came to consecrate everything, the Baptismal font, new altar, everything. The consecration of a new altar is really humbling to experience.

Joe B
 
I don’t have any one particular mass that stands out as “worst” per say, though I have some winners:

-At a recent mass, all I heard from the priest was mrrmmmwhmmhmhmmrwaawmmmhmm. The priest mumbled the entire time. I wouldn’t be exaggerating if I said that no one in the church understood a single thing he said.

-The “life-teen” mass I attended in Michigan not too long ago. Folksy singing during the consecration, every pause being punctuated with “Alleluia, amen” from the choir.

The “best” Mass wasn’t a Mass but a Ukranian Catholic Divine Liturgy (also out in Michigan). Tiny congregation, but very reverent and fervent.
 
  • Eucharist dropped on the floor.
  • Priest leaving the Precious Blood in the Chalice on the altar and inviting communicants to go up and take of the cup themselves after having received the Eucharist from him.
  • “Benediction” by a lay person standing who took the monstrance in their bare hands and then remained standing directly behind the monstrance during the divine praises.
  • The Blessed Sacrament left alone exposed during adoration.
  • Child taking the Eucharist out of their mouth and tossing it back and forth in their hands.
  • Child eating the consecrated host bit by bit, nibbling on it.
  • Child carrying the host in their hands back to their pew and playing with it for several minutes before finally consuming it.
I don’t really want to go on or dwell on it because it truly saddens me to think of all that Christ must endure with liturgical abuses. He humbles Himself to meet with us in the Eucharist and the least we could do is treat him with the respect, dignity, and adoration he deserves.
 
  • Eucharist dropped on the floor.
  • Priest leaving the Precious Blood in the Chalice on the altar and inviting communicants to go up and take of the cup themselves after having received the Eucharist from him.
  • “Benediction” by a lay person standing who took the monstrance in their bare hands and then remained standing directly behind the monstrance during the divine praises.
  • The Blessed Sacrament left alone exposed during adoration.
  • Child taking the Eucharist out of their mouth and tossing it back and forth in their hands.
  • Child eating the consecrated host bit by bit, nibbling on it.
  • Child carrying the host in their hands back to their pew and playing with it for several minutes before finally consuming it.
I don’t really want to go on or dwell on it because it truly saddens me to think of all that Christ must endure with liturgical abuses. He humbles Himself to meet with us in the Eucharist and the least we could do is treat him with the respect, dignity, and adoration he deserves.
 
We once had a priest who would bring his guitar to the sanctuary and play “Peace around us, before us, peace under our feet” complete with arm movements from the parishioners. That was the wierdest Mass I ever attended, and it made me very uncomfortable to be there.

The best Masses are the midnight Masses of Christmas and last Sunday, I attended the Tridentine Mass at St. Anthony’s in Calgary with my sister and her husband. That was the most reverent Mass I have attended in years. Very beautiful and moving, with 7 reverent altar boys. ( No hair twirling or fidgeting and kicking of the feet by these kids) I can’t wait to go back! 👍
 
Peace be with you!

The worst Mass I’ve been to was one of those “Life Teen” Masses. The music was so loud (complete with drums) that you could barely hear the words. Even at the Responsorial Psalm they had rock-type music with drums and we could barely hear the Psalm being sung. My friend genuflected at communion and then stood to recieve on her tongue with her hands folded and the EMHC started to bless her! My friend had to tell the EMHC that she recieves and then was simply handed the host…no “Body of Christ” and anything!
The two altar servers were dressed like they were going to the mall with their friends. The ushers the same, and one of the young men that was ushering was wearing big sunglasses while doing it! The congregation (adults included) were all swaying to the music.
The Homily was a visiting priest asking for donations for 15-20 minutes without even trying to relate it to the Gospel message. It was announced at the end of Mass that one of the young ladies in the choir had graduated high school that year and was going to work as an intern for Sen. Ron Wyden! If you’re not from Oregon, he’s one of our senators and one of the biggest abortion supporters in the country. At that point the congregation and the priests all applauded.
All in all, I didn’t even feel like I had been to Mass; I felt like I had been to a Protestant service…and all my friends that were with me agreed.

The best Masses I’ve been to are as follows:

My cousin’s wedding this past July. It was at St. Aloysuis Church on the Gonzaga campus in Spokane (if you’ve never seen it it’s one of the most beautiful churches I’ve ever been in in this country) and my uncle said the Mass. It was all very reverant. My uncle sang most of the prayers and there were two other priests and a deacon…and two or three altar servers. We sang the Kyrie. Most of the songs were in Latin and we did the Litany of the Saints during the Presentation to Our Lady and Saint Joseph. It was a great Mass all around.

Just last month my Newman club had a retreat and went to Mass at Mt. Angel Abby (a Benedictine monastary). All the priests in the monastary/seminary con-celebrated the Mass and the choir was all monks and seminarians. A nun was playing the organ and other than that there no other instruments. We sang the Kyrie. All the songs were in English, but they were old traditional hymns and sung beautifully by the monks. The celebrant priest had an excellent homily and related an old Arthurian poem to the Gospel message. The church there is amazing too–the congregation is seperated from the altar by the standing places (I forget the name of them) where the monks chant their vespers. There are many statues and icons in the church (in fact, my Orthodox friend who was with us said she felt “right at home” because of all the icons!). They also burned incense through the Mass. The cantor for the Responsorial Psalm was amazing too.

FInally, another favorite Mass was the Latin Mass at Holy Rosary Church here in Portland. It was my first one and I was excited for it. At the beginning of Mass, you could smell the incense and see it drifting up the isle. At this point the church was completely silent. Then a single bell rung once and the congregation stood. Slow, acapella Latin chanting started from the choir loft and the priest and six altar boys came down the isle. The priest went around the altar with the incense and then began the Mass (the only thing I didn’t like is that he did the sign of the cross in English and not Latin).
The Our Father was sung in Latin and so was the Creed. With the Creed, however, the choir sang a line and then the congregation did, and it went back and forth. We sang the Kyrie with all the notes drawn out for a long time. The communion rail was used and there were two priests distributing communion. Some of the women and girls were wearing lace veils for the Mass. It was probably the most beautiful Mass I’ve been too because of the Latin and the chanting. All the singing was acapella and an organ played the closing hymn. Holy Rosary does a Dominican High Mass (in Gregorian chant) on Holy Days, so I’m going to have to go check one of those out.

In Christ,
Rand
 
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