Liturgical Abuses

  • Thread starter Thread starter JessicaCeleste
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JessicaCeleste

Guest
Greetings! I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas and New Year!

As a Catholic-in-Progress grin and one who attends a traditional parish, I was wondering if somebody could explain the concept of Liturgical Abuses to me. What on Earth is liturgical dancing?

Thanks much!

Jess
 
40.png
JessicaCeleste:
Greetings! I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas and New Year!

As a Catholic-in-Progress grin and one who attends a traditional parish, I was wondering if somebody could explain the concept of Liturgical Abuses to me. What on Earth is liturgical dancing?

Thanks much!

Jess
Click to expand...
Happy New Year!

LITURGUCAL DANCING IS AN ABUSE! There is no such thing as liturgical dancing ever permitted by the Vatican.

Liturgical abuse is what is being done which is not permitted or not in the order of the liturgy as approved by the bichops conference or the vatican itself.

Ex of this are:
Liturgical Dancing
Composing of their own EucharisticPrayer
Singing or playing musical instruments during the Eucharistic Prayer other than what is in the roman missal ( like singing alleluia of the faithful during consecration)
 
The Vatican has published pamphlets on the importance of always being aware of liturgical abuses. Personally, I am always after churches here in the USA that follow the Vatican rules on the liturgy. Just because we are not living in Rome does not mean we should not worship as such. Recently I entered into the Church as a baptized Catholic and left the Church I was baptized at because of even the smallest of liturgical abuses.
 
40.png
JessicaCeleste:
Greetings! I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas and New Year!

As a Catholic-in-Progress grin and one who attends a traditional parish, I was wondering if somebody could explain the concept of Liturgical Abuses to me. What on Earth is liturgical dancing?

Thanks much!

Jess
Click to expand...
Cardinal Arinze discusses Liturgical Dance here in this letter capture at Adoremus.org.

adoremus.org/Dance.html

And, he covered it again in his letter on Liturgical Piety.

If you do not know Cardinal Arinze, he is the head of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments.

Here is something right from the heart of this website which captures common liturgical abuses.

catholic.com/library/liturgical_abuses.asp

To understand what a liturgical abuse is, you really have to understand the norms of the liturgy. Those are found in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal (found at the USCCB site).

This tells the priest and the people how the Mass is to be celebrated, from the words used, to postures, to specifics about vessels, and even architecture of Churchs. The Holy See puts this out and individual diocese, such as the diocese of the United States may submit recommended exceptions or norms for itself. But, the Holy See must buy-in to the desired norms. Often times, the Holy See will accept these changes, with stipulations. However, the Holy See does not require the buy-in of the US Bishops or any other bishops to make changes.

When an abuse occurs, which is a violation of a norm, it is illicit, which does not invalidate the Mass, or the abuse can be serious enough to invalidate the Mass. For example, if a priest modifies the words of the Consecration, it can invalidate the Mass. If a priest, however, allows a lay person to give a homily, it won’t invalidate the Mass, but it is illicit.

Not only do we have to follow the norms found in the GIRM, but clarifications have come about due to questions raised. For example, there was a huge issue over whether people could kneel for the reception of Holy Communion. Some priests were denying people Holy Communion and this was clarified as a no-no in a subsequent document called Redemtionis Sacramentum which came out in 2004.
 
Poor JessicaCeleste! Nobody yet has answered the “what” of liturgical dance.

Like you, I’m a Catholic in Progress, and I’ve never experienced
liturgical dance" in my parish.

However, being an ex-Unitarian, I’ve seen something like it…

Persons in dance outfits (leotards & tights, plus a little flimsy stuff on top) daqncing in the aisles while the service is going on… Eww.

In our Western European culture, dance is an art form, so it has no place inthe liturgy. (Not to mention how distracting it is.) Some other cultures have always had dance as part of their worship; they are not forbidden to use it in the liturgy.

Search both the CA library, and the Ask an Apologist forum (aka AAA), for “liturgical dance” and you will get a whole bunch of information.
 
Hi JessicaCeleste from a fellow central Vermonter! I don’t think we’ve had much in the way of liturgical dance in VT since the late 70s–probably because our climate is too miserable most of the year for skimpy leotards and tights-- 😃

Where I am now we DO have a few abuses, sad to say. Not liturgical dance (yet), but changing of words in the Mass, blue vestments for Advent. . .

Keep on the forums and you’ll find friendly people who can give you great support and help when you need it. We were lucky with Bishop Angell and I think Bishop Matano looks pretty faithful too. God bless.
 
40.png
Ruthie:
Poor JessicaCeleste! Nobody yet has answered the “what” of liturgical dance.

Like you, I’m a Catholic in Progress, and I’ve never experienced
liturgical dance" in my parish.

However, being an ex-Unitarian, I’ve seen something like it…

Persons in dance outfits (leotards & tights, plus a little flimsy stuff on top) daqncing in the aisles while the service is going on… Eww.

In our Western European culture, dance is an art form, so it has no place inthe liturgy. (Not to mention how distracting it is.) Some other cultures have always had dance as part of their worship; they are not forbidden to use it in the liturgy.

Search both the CA library, and the Ask an Apologist forum (aka AAA), for “liturgical dance” and you will get a whole bunch of information.
Click to expand...
Aww Ruthie, you didn’t go to my link where Cardinal Arinze addresses Liturigical Dance?

Here it is from my post above.

8. Dance in the Liturgy
Some people want to introduce dance into the sacred liturgy. The Latin Rite liturgy has not had any such practice. We have therefore to ask those who want to bring in the dance to state their case.
[www.adoremus.org/Dance.htm](www.adoremus.org/Dance.htm)
 
40.png
Lux_et_veritas:
Cardinal Arinze discusses Liturgical Dance here in this letter capture at Adoremus.org.

adoremus.org/Dance.html

Redemtionis Sacramentum which came out in 2004.
Click to expand...
I recorded his interview on EWTN a number of months back. It was worth the effort to put in on DVD and also do a CD on the responses he made to things like Altar Girls, EMHC etc.

I have given away literally hundreds of the CD

A truly kind man with orthodox views, an impish smile, and the talent of his carpenter boss… he knows how to hit the nail on the head.!!
 
Now, if you want to know what it is, here are a few still shots found on the web. These are not necessarily Catholic, but things like this were occuring (and are still happening) in some parishes before the Vatican clamped down. If you live in LA, I think you may be able to catch some liturgical dance.

http://gbgm-umc.org/images/photobank/f0137.jpg

http://www.sondanceministry.com/images/pic_dance.jpg

Here’s more images from Google. Once again, all are not Catholic, but if you don’t know what it is, this will give you the idea.

Oh, hey - with a name like Loyola, I think this one is Catholic. And, the priest Celebrant is visible in the far right corner. We don’t know how old this is, so maybe it happens still and maybe it doesn’t.

http://www.loyolacampusministry.org/litdance1.jpg
 
40.png
MrS:
I recorded his interview on EWTN a number of months back. It was worth the effort to put in on DVD and also do a CD on the responses he made to things like Altar Girls, EMHC etc.

I have given away literally hundreds of the CD

A truly kind man with orthodox views, an impish smile, and the talent of his carpenter boss… he knows how to hit the nail on the head.!!
Click to expand...
I wonder if that is available in PodCast or anything. Was it a TV or Radio interview?
 
I miss AG

I grew up down the road in St Jude’s Parish, but my uncles and grandparents were just blocks from Grotto.

Often went to the Ramona Theatre across the street … long since burned out, torn down.

I number of my church friends make the trek down to 6/Gratiot often… and even have their children receive the sacraments there. You are blessed to have access to this parish.

(and judging from your posts, the parish is blessed to have you)
 
40.png
Lux_et_veritas:
I wonder if that is available in PodCast or anything. Was it a TV or Radio interview?
Click to expand...
It was a tv (Raymond Aroyo) interview… wanna copy?
 
40.png
MrS:
I miss AG

I grew up down the road in St Jude’s Parish, but my uncles and grandparents were just blocks from Grotto.

Often went to the Ramona Theatre across the street … long since burned out, torn down.

I number of my church friends make the trek down to 6/Gratiot often… and even have their children receive the sacraments there. You are blessed to have access to this parish.

(and judging from your posts, the parish is blessed to have you)
Click to expand...
Begin thread drift:

Hey, you are just a skip away in Brighton. Why don’t you come on down on the 8th for 9:30 Latin Mass. We have a 30 member orchestra playing with the Choir and will be doing one last round of Schubert’s Mass in F, Magnificat, and two beautiful German pieces. In Grotto fashion, it will be a 2 hour Mass, but we make up for it with hot dogs and hamburgers. There won’t be another Orchestral Mass until Easter Season. Get there by 9:00 or so if you want a decent parking spot.

End thread drift.
 
40.png
MrS:
It was a tv (Raymond Aroyo) interview… wanna copy?
Click to expand...
Yes.

Diane K
29019 Scarborough Dr.
Warren, MI 48088

I will make you a swap. Gimme your address and I’ll send you a CD of Assumption Day pictures (100 pics) at the Grotto. One made the front page of the Wanderer the weekend of October 1-2.
 
40.png
MrS:
It was a tv (Raymond Aroyo) interview… wanna copy?
Click to expand...
I do! I do!

Which, by the way, disproves the assertions of some of my ex-girlfriends that I have no idea how to say those two words. HA! 👍
 
**General Notice:

Regarding quoted texts/materials/references to the threads:

Please review Forum rules and the help sticky,
Helpful Hints on Posting:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=72808
Guidelines on posting articles to Catholic Answers Forums
**
.

The above notice has been posted in a number of threads within the Liturgy & Sacraments Forum for over three months now… I regret to say that posts exceeding the limits set forth in Guidelines on Posting will in the future be abbreviated down to one line or removed from the board. Your assistance in complying with the limits set are very much appreciated.
 
I dont get it! Dance should reamin a liturgical abuse. You are at Mass to worship God , not have fun.
 
40.png
aspawloski4th:
I dont get it! Dance should reamin a liturgical abuse. You are at Mass to worship God , not have fun.
Click to expand...
It is considered liturgical abuse. It is not permitted here in the US, but some continue to use it, granted, very few. This was not the case a few years ago when it was growing. Heavens, if they hadn’t stopped it when they did, it would have grown into some kind of norm.

However, dance in the liturgy is considered ok, for example, in some African countries, where dance is cultural and not associated with the profane, as it is here in the US.

Cardinal Arinze even spoke against any kind of ballet type stuff during the liturgy in the west. Read my links further up on Liturgical Piety.
 
viktor aleksndr:
Happy New Year!

LITURGUCAL DANCING IS AN ABUSE! There is no such thing as liturgical dancing ever permitted by the Vatican.
Click to expand...
No, that is not correct. Liturgical dance is specifically allowed by the Vatican to at least certain parts of the Church in Africa. It is much more culturally acceptible there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top