Liturgical abuses

[yessisan]

I went to Mass last night, and the chaplain, at the time of the consecration, said “gave it to his friends and said” both for the bread and wine. I had seen this happen before, and once it was explained as being a children’s liturgy, but this priest does it in every Mass he gives.

Yesterdays, there was only one girl in Mass, so I don’t know why he used friends instead of disciples. Another thing he did was that before the end of Mass, before the blessing, he asked a family to come up because it was the parents’ anniversary and asked us to raise our hands and bless these people. Then he sent them back to their pew and gave us the blessing and Mass ended.

I really am starting to like the pastor and the chaplain, but some of the liturgical abuses bother me a lot. Aside from the abuses, the Mass was so beautiful. I felt in awe the entire time. The readings were wonderful, the music was inspiring, people were actually singing (many of the parishoners at this parish don’t sing along). They usually don’t have Mass like this here.

My concern is that they always use friends instead of disciples, whether or not it’s a children’s liturgy. Even the Pastor does it once in a while. Another thing that bothers me is that right before the beginning of Mass, one of the priests comes in, says hi and welcomes us and tells us to stand up, to greet one another and take a name an give a name. Then he goes out and comes back to begin Mass.

Aside from the abuses, which could be ignored, I’m starting to like it there. I haven’t seen a parish be so full of people in California (except for the Spanish Masses, those are packed). This parish, for all its Masses, is full to the point the fire marshal has said it’s a fire hazard. Even last night, the church was almost full. You never see this in the parish I’m a member of. So, that’s something to think about.

My problem now is whether to keep on coming to this parish or not. I was begining to ponder on the idea of letting go of my old parish and becoming a member at this new one. I was also asked to become an EMHC. So, I don’t know if I should do either because of the abuses. I’m still thinking it twice on the EMHC since many Catholics are against them, but I haven’t seen a problem at all in the parishes I’ve been to in 13 yrs. The need for EMHC’s is obvious at this parish, so, I really don’t know what to do.

Should I stay and become a member and an EMHC? Should I mention the abuses to the priest? I don’t want to sound as “the one who doesn’t like what you do at your parish” kind of person. Should I write a letter to the priest? Should I talk to him in person? Should I let it go?

Oh and one more thing… the priest ommitted the Creed yesterday. Also, for 2 Sundays in a row they’ve ommitted the Gloria.

 

[iamscifimike]

I, too, struggle with “putting up with” these types of abuses. My wife tells me that it is just as bad for me to get so upset during mass(lol - She only became a Catholic when we were married and now she’s teaching me). When it’s something I can be a role model for, like folding my hands instead of holding neighbors hands during the Lord’s prayer, I look at that as holy opportunity.

One our priests uses the “friends” adjustment and I can’t stand it when he says aloud “May the body and blood of Christ bring us to everlasting life” instead of “…bring me to eternal life” to himself. This wouldn’t bother me so much if people weren’t starting to respond “Amen.”

I don’t think that these abuses, since they don’t invalidate the mass should divert you from an otherwise healthy congregation, I would just hope and *pray *that things move back toward the standard norm. If you get more involved, say as an EMHC, perhaps you will build a relationship with your clergy such that you can politely ask about what you believe those norms to be.

I know a wonderful priest who occasionally would sing “O Come Let Us Adore Him” as he held up the Body and Blood of Christ. I went up to him after mass and said that I understood why he did it and I thought it was beautiful, but I questioned the appropriateness of it. He assured me it was ok, and in the few times he’s visited our church since, he hasn’t done it. SO perhaps sometimes it is good.

Look at me starting to ramble. I guess sometimes you have to get it off you chest.

Thanks and God Bless All,
Michael

 

[Edward62]

Maybe it was not an intentional thing and he just happened to say “friends” instead of “disciples”. I don’t really see why it is a problem anyway… I mean yes of course they were his disciples first and foremost but they were also most likely friends. They were very close, as anyone would be if they lived with Our Lord for three years. “Abuse” seems a bit strong… unorthodox, but probably unintentional and and not an abusive action.

 

[yessisan]

Maybe it was not an intentional thing and he just happened to say “friends” instead of “disciples”. I don’t really see why it is a problem anyway… I mean yes of course they were his disciples first and foremost but they were also most likely friends. They were very close, as anyone would be if they lived with Our Lord for three years. “Abuse” seems a bit strong… unorthodox, but probably unintentional and and not an abusive action.

Believe me, it’s intentional. They do this all the time at this parish. The only 2 times they haven’t done it was for Easter Mass and for Divine Mercy Sunday. Those two times the priest said clearly they weren’t going to do the children’s liturgy and used disciples. So, why would the priest say friends when it’s not a children’s liturgy? There was only one girl present, the rest were adults. And they do this at all Masses regardless of children being there or not.

The only time a priest is allowed to change disciples to friends is if it’s a children’s liturgy. No words are to be changed just because a priest wants to.

You can see this thread I started before.

And you can see here: Liturgical Abuses and scroll down to the appendix and you’ll see it clearly says priests are prohibitted from changing words of fixed prayers.

These things won’t stop me from going to Mass or anything, it’s just I don’t know if I should switch to this parish from my old parish since the other one is more “traditional” - as traditional a NO Mass can be.

 

[John_Lilburne]

…The only time a priest is allowed to change disciples to friends is if it’s a children’s liturgy. …

This is not correct. There is also the “Eucharistic Prayer for Masses of Reconciliation I” which includes:
“Again he gave you thanks, handed the cup to his friends, and said …”.
(Roman Missal, Catholic Book Publishing Co., New York, 1985, page 1124).

On the real issue, how bad are liturgical abuses, the following may be helpful, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
“2120. Sacrilege consists in profaning or treating unworthily the sacraments and other liturgical actions, as well as persons, things or places consecrated to God. Sacrilege is a grave sin …”.

"1868. Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:

• by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
• by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
• by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
• by protecting evil-doers."

1. Thus sin makes men accomplices of one another and causes concupiscence, violence, and injustice to reign among them. Sins give rise to social situations and institutions that are contrary to the divine goodness. “Structures of sin” are the expression and effect of personal sins. They lead their victims to do evil in their turn. In an analogous sense, they constitute a “social sin.” [footnote 144: John Paul II, Reconciliatio et paenitentia, n. 16 ]."

Regarding the Oath of Fidelity, which includes “I shall follow and foster the common discipline of the entire Church and I shall maintain the observance of all ecclesiastical laws, especially those contained in the Code of Canon Law.” I think this has been required for newly appointed parish priests since 1989 (see ourladyswarriors.org/teach/cdfoath.htm ):
“2152. A person commits perjury when he makes a promise under oath with no intention of keeping it, or when after promising on oath he does not keep it. Perjury is a grave lack of respect for the Lord of all speech. …”.

 

[BritishCatholic]

I myself am a Conservative/Traditional Catholic. And I am always bothered by this “friend” thing in the stead of “disciple” as well.

However, this is indeed a very minor thing compared to altar girls serving in high heels wearing their albs above their knees like skirts, or clapping during the Alleluia. Like a person said before me, this can hardly be called an “abuse”.

But I do respect how you feel. I myself have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. And, very unfortunate for me, one of the main things I have OCD for in my life is liturgy. I can’t go to one Novus Ordo Mass without clenching my fist or biting my lips. So your original post is well taken.