Liturgical Color for feast of St. John the Apostle and Evangelist

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My PV approached me with a favor.

Today is the feast of St. John the Apostle and the Evangelist. The normal liturgical color for Evangelists and Apostles (martyrs, included) is RED. Sts. Luke and Mark call for RED on their feast days. Sts. Peter, Paul, Andrew, James, Matthew (double whammy as he, too, is an Evangelist), James, Simon, Jude, Bartholomew, Matthias, Philip and Thomas also call for RED on their feasts (although the Conversion of St. Paul and the Chair of St. Peter call for WHITE).

Why is St. John the only exception to the rule? Granted, he was the only one who wasn’t martyred, shouldn’t his feast day call for RED since he, too, was also an evangelist. My PV and I both looked up the reference in the GIRM wherein St. John’s feast day is specifically mentioned as using WHITE. However, there is no explanation given.

My PV, who celebrates the anniversary of his presbyterial ordination tomorrow (the feast of the Holy Innocents), asked me to find the answer to this rather interesting question. Japhy, Thurifer and friends, I am now throwing down the gauntlet. As you guys are the resident experts and much more knowledgeable than I, what say you?
 
benedictgal said:
Why is St. John the only exception to the rule? Granted, he was the only one who wasn’t martyred
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I think you answered your own question here, but I look forward to a more knowledgeable response than my own.
 
Digitonomy said:
I think you answered your own question here, but I look forward to a more knowledgeable response than my own.
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True, he was the only one of the Apostolic band not martyred (he survived being boiled in oil and was exiled to Patmos), but, we don’t have information that Luke and Mark were martyred, and, as Evangelists, their color is RED.

So, other than the fact that John wasn’t martyred, why do we use WHITE when celebrating his feast day?

Thanks, Digitonomy. I, too, am looking forward to the response.
 
The 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal has:
“346. As to the color of sacred vestments, the traditional usage is to be retained: namely,
a. White is used in the Offices and Masses during the Easter and Christmas seasons; also on celebrations of the Lord other than of his Passion, of the Blessed Virgin Mary, of the Holy Angels,** and of Saints who were not Martyrs**; on the Solemnities of All Saints (1 November) and of the Nativity of Saint John the Baptist (24 June); and on the Feasts of Saint John the Evangelist (27 December), of the Chair of Saint Peter (22 February), and of the Conversion of Saint Paul (25 January).
b. Red is used on Palm Sunday of the Lord’s Passion and on Good Friday, on Pentecost Sunday, on celebrations of the Lord’s Passion, on the feasts of the Apostles and Evangelists, and on celebrations of Martyr Saints. …”.
 
Not a difficult question (and, regrettably, one a priest should be able to answer with ease).

John is the ONLY apostle and/or evangelist for whom there is NO tradition of a martyr’s death.

Thus the color is white.

He was “almost” martyred at the Latin Gate under Domitian, which is why the color for that May 6 feast is red.
 
John_Lilburne said:
The 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal has:
“346. As to the color of sacred vestments, the traditional usage is to be retained: namely,
a. White is used in the Offices and Masses during the Easter and Christmas seasons; also on celebrations of the Lord other than of his Passion, of the Blessed Virgin Mary, of the Holy Angels,** and of Saints who were not Martyrs**; on the Solemnities of All Saints (1 November) and of the Nativity of Saint John the Baptist (24 June); and on the Feasts of Saint John the Evangelist (27 December), of the Chair of Saint Peter (22 February), and of the Conversion of Saint Paul (25 January).
b. Red is used on Palm Sunday of the Lord’s Passion and on Good Friday, on Pentecost Sunday, on celebrations of the Lord’s Passion, on the feasts of the Apostles and Evangelists, and on celebrations of Martyr Saints. …”.
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Thank you, John. However, inasmuch as we all agree that St. John was not a martyr, how do you explain using red for Evangelists (of which John was also) and not for the beloved Apostle?

My PV was looking for an explanation since Luke and Mark were not martyrs. I think this is going to turn into the $64,000 question. 😃
 
This is not really so difficult a question.

There IS a tradition that Luke and Mark died as martyrs. Read the 1962 Martyrology entries for them both, for starters.

We may not have historically critical and reliable information, but the ancient tradition is that both Luke and Mark were martyred. NOT John.
 
AlexV said:
Not a difficult question (and, regrettably, one a priest should be able to answer with ease).

John is the ONLY apostle and/or evangelist for whom there is NO tradition of a martyr’s death.

Thus the color is white.

He was “almost” martyred at the Latin Gate under Domitian, which is why the color for that May 6 feast is red.
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Could you please clarify what you mean by “NO tradition of a martyr’s death”. St. John was the last of the Apostles and while I am not sure if St. Mark or St. Luke died after him St. John did die after St. Matthew. Was Saint John canonized before any of the other Apostles or Evangelists?
 
No apostle or evangelist has ever been canonized. Canonization didn’t exist until relatively modern times,

Tradition states that EVERY apostle and evangelist (including Paul and Barnabas) was martyred, EXCEPT John, who died a natural death.
 
childofmary1143 said:
Could you please clarify what you mean by “NO tradition of a martyr’s death”. St. John was the last of the Apostles and while I am not sure if St. Mark or St. Luke died after him St. John did die after St. Matthew. Was Saint John canonized before any of the other Apostles or Evangelists?
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I don’ t think the Apostolic band needed “canonization”, as the ritual occurs later in our Church’s history. There was, perhaps, a certain degree of veneration of the Apostles and the saints (as evidenced in catacomb drawings of the Apostles and Sts. Agnes, Lucy and other early martyrs). St. John was the last Apostle to have died and he lived to a ripe old age.

So, AlexV, are you saying, then, that Luke and Mark were martyred, that is why their liturgical color is RED? The reason I am curious is because our Bishop said that he wears RED on the feast of St. Luke to signify that the Holy Spirit was the author of the Gospel (yup, he said this; in fact I think it was broadcast when he made that statement). That is why there is confusion as to which color applies.

The reason why my PV is curious is because there was a debate among the priests and no one could answer the question. It’s not that he’s ignorant (he’s probably the most brilliant mind in our diocese); it’s just that there are some things that will elicit questions. St. John’s feast day (and liturgical color) is such a one.
 
Well, a bishop can say whatever he wants, but the principal reason we wear red on October 18 is because Luke died a martyr. Ditto Mark on April 25.

John didn’t. End of story. Hence we wear white, since he didn’t shed his blood at his death.

It’s sort of Hagiography 101 that John was the only apostle/evangelist who wasn’t martyred. Unfortunately, this sort of basic information isn’t on most seminary syllabuses these days
 
AlexV said:
Well, a bishop can say whatever he wants, but the principal reason we wear red on October 18 is because Luke died a martyr. Ditto Mark on April 25.

John didn’t. End of story. Hence we wear white, since he didn’t shed his blood at his death.

It’s sort of Hagiography 101 that John was the only apostle/evangelist who wasn’t martyred. Unfortunately, this sort of basic information isn’t on most seminary syllabuses these days
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Don’t get me wrong, AlexV, I agree with you regarding what our bishop said, as one of the priests and I made eye contact as the bishop made the statement and we had a collective :confused: expression. Incidentally, his excellency never mentioned that Luke was martyred.
 
AlexV said:
No apostle or evangelist has ever been canonized. Canonization didn’t exist until relatively modern times,

Tradition states that EVERY apostle and evangelist (including Paul and Barnabas) was martyred, EXCEPT John, who died a natural death.
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Curious to learn that. However #4 quotes the 2002 GIRM where it states: b. Red is used on Palm Sunday of the Lord’s Passion and on Good Friday, on Pentecost Sunday, on celebrations of the Lord’s Passion, on the feasts of the Apostles and Evangelists, and on celebrations of Martyr Saints. …"

Is that reference an accurate one as it would seem that St. John would get Red for his feast day?
 
Just for the sake it:

Before 1961/2 there used to be two feasts of St. John on the General Calendar. One on the 27 December and on 6 May - “St. John before the Latin gate” - which commemorated the tradition that St. John was thrown in burning oil. For this latter feast- relegated to the appendix ‘pro aliquibus locis’ of the missal in 1962 - the colour was red.

Interestingly, Innocent III, when writing on liturgical colours, did not except St. John the Evangelist on the 27th, I think.:hmmm: I should look that up.
 
childofmary1143 said:
Curious to learn that. However #4 quotes the 2002 GIRM where it states: b. Red is used on Palm Sunday of the Lord’s Passion and on Good Friday, on Pentecost Sunday, on celebrations of the Lord’s Passion, on the feasts of the Apostles and Evangelists, and on celebrations of Martyr Saints. …"

Is that reference an accurate one as it would seem that St. John would get Red for his feast day?
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Yes, but the GIRM explicitly excepts St. John by including him among the colour white.
 
AJV said:
Just for the sake it:

Before 1961/2 there used to be two feasts of St. John on the General Calendar. One on the 27 December and on 6 May - “St. John before the Latin gate” - which commemorated the tradition that St. John was thrown in burning oil. For this latter feast- relegated to the appendix ‘pro aliquibus locis’ of the missal in 1962 - the colour was red.
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Oh, whoops AlexV: saw that you already mentioned this. My apologies. :o
 
AJV said:
Just for the sake it:

Before 1961/2 there used to be two feasts of St. John on the General Calendar. One on the 27 December and on 6 May - “St. John before the Latin gate” - which commemorated the tradition that St. John was thrown in burning oil. For this latter feast- relegated to the appendix ‘pro aliquibus locis’ of the missal in 1962 - the colour was red.

Interestingly, Innocent III, when writing on liturgical colours, did not except St. John the Evangelist on the 27th, I think.:hmmm: I should look that up.
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Yes, you should. I just got off the phone with my PV and he, too, is curious about Pope Innocent III. I suppose that when the May 6th feast was suppressed under the new calendar, the Church then stuck with white for St. John.

However, there is still that nagging question about Red for Evangelists. And, another caveat: why were Red vestments worn for the funeral of JPII? Why does the Holy Father wear RED when he celebrates a funeral Mass for a cardinal?
 
benedictgal said:
Yes, you should. I just got off the phone with my PV and he, too, is curious about Pope Innocent III. I suppose that when the May 6th feast was suppressed under the new calendar, the Church then stuck with white for St. John.

However, there is still that nagging question about Red for Evangelists. And, another caveat: why were Red vestments worn for the funeral of JPII? Why does the Holy Father wear RED when he celebrates a funeral Mass for a cardinal?
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I would imagine that there are special rubrics for Papal Masses?
 
This really isn’t deserving of all the attention it’s getting. There are no “nagging” questions here.

Red is a color for martyrs, and EVERY evangelist…except John…died a martyr (according to tradition). Luke, Mark, Matthew…all martyrs. So the whole John red/white issue is solved with one fact: he didn’t die a martyr.

As for popes and red for funerals, that’s a different story altogether. Popes have associations with the apostles, obviously, who were all martyrs (except John) and in relatively recent years, a very old custom has been reborn…the idea that a pope “mourns in red”, and “is mourned in red”.

It’s from the old days of antiquity when almost every single pope died a martyr. It was later abandoned (Paul VI’s funeral was in purple, for instance). It was restored for the funeral of John Paul II. I don’t think it’s a custom that needed to be restored, but oh well.
 
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