Liturgical frustration

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misericordie

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I am just curious about one thing: How many here have become so frustrated with the way many Novus Ordo Masses are being celebrated(electric guitars, drums, people jumping up in down in some, liturgical dancers, etc, etc, etc,) that you have decided to ONLY begin attending (with the right the Church gives us, by Papal decree: “Motu Propio Ecclesia Dei” Pope John Paul II 1988) the Latin Tridentine Mass(In a parish with the Bishop’s Indult to celebrate it)? Most of my friends have, and they are in their twenties and thirties(young crowd).
I am one to personally support the Indult Tridentine Latin Mass, but do attend a Novus Ordo at my parish too because there, my Pastor tolerates no nonsense, and does not lead people to think the mass is entertainment where people go to just FEEL good. He follows the BOOKS.
Thanks to everyone’s thoughts on this issue?
Many blessings.
 
I share your frustration. Personally, I attend both Masses and at both we receive the body and blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. It would be nice if the Indult was available to more people as well though. You have a right to reverent liturgy. This is not a priviledge.

I do not think the Pauline Rite should be discarded, but in many cases its presentation is surely deficient. Somehow, uniform precision and reverence has to be enforced in the Mass throughout the entire Church.
Blessings,
Ryan
 
By accident, I found the TLM, and seeing the lack of reverence at parishes in the area I used to liv in, I switched to the TLM. Where I moved to, my home parish is a NO parish ran by Dominicans, and it is very reverent, uses no altar girls, no female lectors, use the rail for communion, no EMHCs and straight preaching from the friars that run the parish, though I still attend the TLM most weeks.

I think a large number of people attend the TLM not because of the missal in of itself, but the way it is too often celbrated.

Misericordie, how is mass celebrated in your parish? Altar boys only used, the rail used, no EMHCs?
 
Wow, your Novus OOrdo parish seems great: Ohio? If Ohio it would then be the Eastern Province Dominicans which is the BEST Dominican Province in the USA. The Masses celebrated in parishes in which the other provinces have, are ULTRA LIBERAL.
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     Well, to answer your question, my parish in Manhattan (NYC) has NO "altar girls" rather, "holds on to the noble tradition of altar boys" and  though they distribute Communion to standing people, the parish has its original Communion rail since it was built in 1834.   THE ORGAN!!!  Is the ONLY instrument allowed(as vatican II recomended), and the NEW Order of Priests that run it a 100% Catholic. Thomistic, very young priests, they use cassocks, incense, candels(real ones as it is supposed to be) and confessions all the time.
I believe the wonderful new order is to thank for all this, believe me, these guys are solidly orthodox and GREAT!!!
The web-site for the order, and the parishes they run in the USA is: www.iveamerica.org They are called the Institute of the Incarnate Word, and they were founded in Argentina in 1985)
 
The Westren Province of the Dominicans in recent years have become fairly orthodox, in fact, the Westren Province novices paid a vist to Karl Keating himself at Catholic Awnsers earlier this year. Holy Rosary parish in Porland OR is probably one of the best parishes in terms of liturgical quality inthe US, and they also only celebrate using the current missal.

The Southren Province of Dominicans are somwhat more liberal, though I understand they are becoming more orthodox, but it will take a while longer, though the Dominican ran parish in Houston TX, also named Holy Rosary is like my home parish liturgically.

On the other hand, the Central provice of the Dominicans still have “issues”, being by far the most liberal of the 4 Dominican provinces.

As for your parish, I hope, despite the fact the USCCB currently objects to it, that it can start using the altar rail again, someone told me the way to do that is get the familes who want to use the rail to go in the front pews, the others will follow.
 
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misericordie:
I am just curious about one thing: How many here have become so frustrated with the way many Novus Ordo Masses are being celebrated(electric guitars, drums, people jumping up in down in some, liturgical dancers, etc, etc, etc,) that you have decided to ONLY begin attending… the Latin Tridentine Mass…
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In Santa Fe, as best I can tell, there is no choice except for one indult mass 70 miles away, and one SSPX 1962 liturgy mass in the same area. The currently condoned masses are so awful, that, well, prudence and decency prevent me from adequately stating my feelings. Say an extra prayer here for us–if only that we get a NOM mass that is correctly said, much less a Latin service!
 
you are right, sorry I forgot to mention the Western Province. The Eastern And Western Province are the ones totally fathful to the Vatican, tradition, and the Magisterium, oh yes, to the Dominican ideal of defending catholic DOCTRINE: The DOCTRINAL aspect. I have heard that some dominicans in CERTAIN USA Provinces, dislike the Rosary, and have told others over and over again that it is a simplistic, “private” devotion, and it is NOT for those with theologiacl understanding, but rather, for the “simple” old ladies, and simple folk. LOL how is that for betrayal of what has originally distinguised the Dominican order: theologiacl study AND THE ROSARY. Who is checking to make sure some of these guys, as well as other orders OBEY their CONSTITUTIONS???
 
I personally would like to see the Tridentine Rite set up as just that, a separate rite similar to the Byzantines, Melkites, etc. I have a Byzantine parish 10 miles from my house, and it would be great to have a “Tridentine parish” that was all Tridentine, all the time, with happy, faithful registered parishioners there. HOWEVER, I don’t think it will ever happen, because of the propensity of Tridentine adherents to refer to the “sacrilege” of Communion in the hand, the “horror” of female lectors, etc, etc, etc. I know enough prelates to know that they will never consider a separate rite as long as this kind of talk continues. I understand the frustration with genuine abuses, but unpopular lawful practices are not “sacrileges” or abuses, they are simply unpopular with certain people.
 
In a few years, hopfully the Southren Province will also be solid, I have been told that some of the Southren novices want a return to tradition. Much of the problem with the Southren Dominican province from what I read is their sending brothers to the Central province ran Aquanis University in St. Louis MO, but the Southren province is planning of setting up its own facilities in San Antonio.

By the way, what is St. Vincent Ferrer(sp) parish like in Manhattan liturgically? Also may I suggest St. Agnes by Grance Central station?
 
I never seen half of the abuses that were orignally cited in the first post. Maybe I 've been lucky. My childhood parish was the last latin holdout in my diocese they had to move the pastor to get them to change to NO.

God Bless
 
Liturgically, at St. Vincent Ferrer’s, all is well except for the MANY Eucharistic “ministers” who though there may only be FEW people at a Mass, they get up to help the priest distribute.
As per the Dominicans, I heard that their house of studies in Washington, D.C. is EXCELLENT, and oh yes, it is a PONTIFICAL Institute. Which tend to be the BEST Theological Schools.
 
Oh I forgot to answer your other question: St. Agnes Parish is good. However, the only GOOD ORTHODOX Mass is their Sunday Tridentine latin Mass at 11:00AM, USUALLY celebrated by FSSP priests.
 
With St Agnes parish, I weas under the impression that all of their masses the rail is used and no EMHCs are used.
 
St. Agnes WAS good until about TWO years ago. Things have CHANGED, if you know what I mean.
 
What changes have been made to it? From what I understood, the parishioners of St. Agnes go there because of its liturgical and theological orthodoxy, they woult not stand for liturgical modernism even in the English masses. The parish I attend is the same way, a few years ago an attempt was made to force people to stand for communion, the parishoners objected strongly, as far as I have heard, St. Agnes is pretty much the same way.
 
In answer to the how many - count me as one.

“In Santa Fe, as best I can tell, there is no choice except for one indult mass 70 miles away” Is Albuquerque that far? But even so - that’s only an hour via I-25 isn’t it?

I travel 30 minutes and that’s within the same city - chuckle.

Before the Tridentine Mass came to Colorado Springs (when I lived there) many would travel to Denver for the Tridentine Mass.

I really don’t mind the distance since Sunday is supposed to be the Lord’s day anyway and in fact arrive about 30 minutes early so I have lots of time to pray or say a rosary before Mass if I so choose.

Before I started attending the Tridentine Mass, I could roll out of bed and go two blocks to Mass - but did not look forward to it like I do the one I travel 30 minutes to attend.
 
I am surprised to hear about how orthodox the Western Province of the Dominicans is now. 25 years ago, I attened the U of W in Seattle, and attended their parish there. They also were the university campus ministers. They were quite liberal then. I’m glad to hear they changed for the good.

As far as Communion in the hand being a sacriledge, it can be. I have seen many sacriledges occuring with Communion in the hand. No, in itself it is not.
 
I guess I don’t understand all this pining for the Tridentine Mass. My parish celebrates the Novus Ordo Mass by the rubrics and it is beautiful. We have only males serving on the altar, a few female readers majority of males though, no EMHCs, Communion by Intiction, and an actual pulpit. I’ve never seen one, just an Ambo. We kneel on kneelers to recieve The Body and Blood of Our Lord. I love it. I’ve been to both Masses and I didn’t think one was any more reverant than the other. The Tridentine Mass was hard to understand because I have no knowledge of Latin. I think when the N.O. Masses is celebrated correctly it is great. I don’t begrudge the desire for the way things were pre Vatican II, I just don’t understand it. I can’t imagine the Tridentine Mass abuse proof as I think some think it is. I don’t know… :confused:
 
Mothersboy, I heard of you parish, and it has from what I understand, 6 men in the seminary, I didnt know they used the communion rail, but thats good to hear. Your parish is similar to the NO parish I attend, but sadly these are not typical, and to many Catholics, they view such parishes as little different than parishes that celbrate the TLM.

Another parish in your region that celbrates the NO with much reverence is the Assumtion Grotto in Detroit.
 
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