Liturgical 'go-go' dancing?

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thann said:
I couldn’t help doing a bit of sleuthing on this because the pictures are just so shocking.

Click on the links for independent verification of each item.

On June 16, 2007, a Jubilee Mass was celebrated for the Joliet Franciscans (women’s religious order), at Joliet’s cathedral of St. Raymond Nonnatus. Father Charles Faso, OFM, was presider. (CLICK HERE for a photo of Fr. Chuck.)

The above information supports some of the information in the OP’s article:
  • There was a Jubilee Mass.
  • It was for women Franciscans.
  • It was at Joliet’s cathedral.
  • It was celebrated by Father Charles Faso, OFM, who bears a resemblance to the priest in the photos.
  • The Mass was June 16, and the OP’s article was dated June 19.
Were there dancers? That’s the single thing I couldn’t verify. But why would someone go to the trouble of doctoring a bunch of photos, adding scantily-clad “vestal virgins”?

Inquiring minds want to know!

'thann
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Excellent work thann. I tried to search it out through Google but didn’t get much.
 
Sarabande said:
Did those girls forget to wear their dresses over the slips? You can see the underwear of one of the girls on the right. I don’t understand this. I don’t consider myself a prude, but I guess I’m one when it come to being in mass at church. As the writer said, I also appreciate good dancing. I love going to the ballet or viewing almost any other kind of dance at the theater, but during mass and especially in an outfit like that just seems wrong.
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I can understand why Our Lady is crying tears when such girls are dressed like pigs.
 
I enlarged the photos and there *appears *to be a couple of sloppy editing marks on them. I think it’s an Internet hoax (I’m certainly praying it is).

I find it odd that the article would be published without credible sources. Is this author just looking to stir the pot?
 
TheGoodLife said:
I enlarged the photos and there *appears *to be a couple of sloppy editing marks on them. I think it’s an Internet hoax (I’m certainly praying it is).

I find it odd that the article would be published without credible sources. Is this author just looking to stir the pot?
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I enlarged the photos, too, and didn’t find any editing marks. They appear authentic.

This event took place just this past Saturday (June 16, 2007), so I imagine more articles will appear (after people lift their jaws off the floor).

As I said in my previous post, this event did occur when and where stated in the OP’s article – the only question remaining is whether there were dancers.

'thann
 
TheGoodLife said:
I enlarged the photos and there *appears *to be a couple of sloppy editing marks on them. I think it’s an Internet hoax (I’m certainly praying it is).

I find it odd that the article would be published without credible sources. Is this author just looking to stir the pot?
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While keeping an open mind about this, I’d say that the pictures are pretty odd if they are a hoax. I’d expect a hoax photo to be more blatant, more clearly showing them dancing at the Mass. These pictures look like somebody flashing away from the vantage point they happened to have, and not being able to get the best (that is, most incontrovertable) pictures of them dancing during the Mass. In fact, if we weren’t told that they were dancing at Mass, there’s no way looking at the photos that we would know that they were dancing. From the photos alone it’s really impossible to tell what that one woman is doing. I would expect hoax photos to be more self-evident.
 
From the way the women are posed, I wonder what the dance moves were like??? Looks like the only thing they were missing were snakes twined around their necks. Talk about pagan festivals…

I would have walked out. And never returned. And written a letter to the parish, the diocese, the USCCB, and Rome, explaining in detail why I would never be going back.
 
VociMike said:
While keeping an open mind about this, I’d say that the pictures are pretty odd if they are a hoax. I’d expect a hoax photo to be more blatant, more clearly showing them dancing at the Mass. These pictures look like somebody flashing away from the vantage point they happened to have, and not being able to get the best (that is, most incontrovertable) pictures of them dancing during the Mass. In fact, if we weren’t told that they were dancing at Mass, there’s no way looking at the photos that we would know that they were dancing. From the photos alone it’s really impossible to tell what that one woman is doing. I would expect hoax photos to be more self-evident.
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This is the problem with pictures. Not only are they easily doctored today but they can in no way tell the whole story. Video tapes and digital recordings are much better.

Also, why the silence as to who took these pictures and who these women “dancing” are? This was a public event so there is no privacy issues to worry about.
 
ByzCath said:
…Also, why the silence as to who took these pictures and who these women “dancing” are? This was a public event so there is no privacy issues to worry about.
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I figure that since this event was only four days ago, we’ll see more photos or articles about it.

'thann
 
thann said:
I couldn’t help doing a bit of sleuthing on this because the pictures are just so shocking.

Click on the links for independent verification of each item.

On June 16, 2007, a Jubilee Mass was celebrated for the Joliet Franciscans (women’s religious order), at Joliet’s cathedral of St. Raymond Nonnatus. Father Charles Faso, OFM, was presider. (CLICK HERE for a photo of Fr. Chuck.)

The above information supports some of the information in the OP’s article:
  • There was a Jubilee Mass.
  • It was for women Franciscans.
  • It was at Joliet’s cathedral.
  • It was celebrated by Father Charles Faso, OFM, who bears a resemblance to the priest in the photos.
  • The Mass was June 16, and the OP’s article was dated June 19.
Were there dancers? That’s the single thing I couldn’t verify. But why would someone go to the trouble of doctoring a bunch of photos, adding scantily-clad “vestal virgins”?

Inquiring minds want to know!

'thann
Click to expand...
From mansfieldnewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070526/LIFESTYLE/705260305
At 10:30 a.m. June 16, the women will celebrate with a liturgy at St. Raymond Nonnatus, 604 N. Raynor Ave. Joliet, Ill. The Rev. Charles Faso, OFM, will preside.
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Notice that the article states there will be a “liturgy”, not a Mass. Not that any of the dancing was appropriate inside the church, and not that there definitely wasn’t a Mass celebrated, but we can’t be certain from that article that there was…
 
Walking_Home said:
Liturgy also means Mass—the terms are interchangable.
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Not quite.

The Divine Office, also called the Liturgy of the Hours is also Liturgy.

The words Mass and Liturgy are not interchangable.

But, if these pictures do prove to be true it does appear to be occuring in the context of the mass.
 
Walking_Home said:
Liturgy also means Mass—the terms are interchangable.
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Actually there are many other Liturgies that are not the Mass so the terms are not interchangeable.

The Mass is a Liturgy so you could say that but if you were to say I attended the Liturgy this Sunday you could easily confuse many of us although the fact that you attended on Sunday would give us a small clue that it was probably the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and not say a Liturgy of the Word (where all that is done is readings from the Bible with a possible Sermon or Homily).

Brenda V.
 
ByzCath said:
But, if these pictures do prove to be true it does appear to be occuring in the context of the mass.
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It does LOOK like the celebration of a Mass, but we can’t sure…not that it would surprise me if there really was a Mass being “celebrated”.
 
ByzCath said:
Not quite.

The Divine Office, also called the Liturgy of the Hours is also Liturgy.

The words Mass and Liturgy are not interchangable.

But, if these pictures do prove to be true it does appear to be occuring in the context of the mass.
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While the Divine Office — is also called the Liturgy of the Hours—it still holds true—that Liturgy and Mass are interchangable. If you will note—below our Mass is referred to as the Sacred Liturgy.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html

In order that especially in the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy the Church might duly safeguard so great a mystery in our own time as well, the Supreme Pontiff has mandated that this Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments,[8] in collaboration with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, should prepare this Instruction treating of certain matters pertaining to the discipline of the Sacrament of the Eucharist. Those things found in this Instruction are therefore to be read in the continuity with the above-mentioned Encyclical Letter, Ecclesia de Eucharistia.
 
ANYWAY, in the article it was stated that there would be “a liturgy”.

We can not assume that this was a Mass.

Not that it would surprise any of us if this was indeed a Mass being celebrated…
 
KofC660 said:
ANYWAY, in the article it was stated that there would be “a liturgy”.

We can not assume that this was a Mass.

Not that it would surprise any of us if this was indeed a Mass being celebrated…
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Except that the priest appears to be wearing a chasuble and there appear to be multiple chalices on the altar in the first picture.For a public service other than a Mass, a cope would typically be worn I believe.
 
ThuribleGuy45 said:
Except that the priest appears to be wearing a chasuble and there appear to be multiple chalices on the altar in the first picture.For a public service other than a Mass, a cope would typically be worn I believe.
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True, true…like I said, I wouldn’t be surprised if this is a Mass, but I won’t assume so until I get some concrete proof.
 
Walking_Home said:
While the Divine Office — is also called the Liturgy of the Hours—it still holds true—that Liturgy and Mass are interchangable. If you will note—below our Mass is referred to as the Sacred Liturgy.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html

In order that especially in the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy the Church might duly safeguard so great a mystery in our own time as well, the Supreme Pontiff has mandated that this Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments,[8] in collaboration with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, should prepare this Instruction treating of certain matters pertaining to the discipline of the Sacrament of the Eucharist. Those things found in this Instruction are therefore to be read in the continuity with the above-mentioned Encyclical Letter, Ecclesia de Eucharistia.
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If you will notice there is a second word there, Sacred.

The word liturgy and Mass are not interchangeable as has been point out by many others here.
 
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