Liturgical language(s) in the East?

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In the Roman Catholic Church Latin is held as the liturgical language par excelence. Inspite of the OFMass being said in the vernacular, there has always been an insistence to maintain Latin. I was wondering if in the Eastern Churches there is an equivalent. Would it be Greek for all? Or Greek in some, Church Slavonic in others, etc.? And if so, is there any insistency to maintain it?

I have heard that in Orthodox missions over the ages the local languages were adopted into the Liturgy. Is there any truth in this? If so, and if there was an insistence to maintain a liturgical language, how were these two apparently conflicting positions reconciled?

I write this thread in the same vein as a recent thread I started in the Traditional Catholic forum. I am interested in knowing how people would be catechized during the Liturgy if it happened to be in a language with which they were unfamiliar (from what I’ve heard the EO, at least, don’t rely much on catechetical classes, prefering the richness of the Divine Liturgy to be itself the catechetical “instrument”.).
 
Depends on the Church. Koine Greek and Old Church Slavonic are the two languages everything is based on, but each Church has its own “official” liturgical language, whether that may be followed by all parishes for not. For example the OCA uses English as its liturgical language, although many parishes also have services in Russian, the Antiochans have Arabic as a liturgical language although many services in North America are held in English.
 
\I have heard that in Orthodox missions over the ages the local languages were adopted into the Liturgy. Is there any truth in this?\

**Yes. In fact, it’s supposed to be standard practice.

The Melkites and Ruthenians (under Nicholas Elko, oddly enough) got permission from Rome to use English BEFORE Vatican II.**

\If so, and if there was an insistence to maintain a liturgical language\

Which there really wasn’t,

\how were these two apparently conflicting positions reconciled?\

**There are no conflicting positions to reconcile.

The only exception is that Church Slavonic is the official liturgical language of the Russian Orthodox Church; modern Russian (oddly enough) may not be used, though English, French, and other languages in their parishes outside of Russia are used.
**
 
The only exception is that Church Slavonic is the official liturgical language of the Russian Orthodox Church; modern Russian (oddly enough) may not be used, though English, French, and other languages in their parishes outside of Russia are used.
I believe even Russian is used in some of the ROCOR churches.

Also there is a movement within the Russian Church to start using the vernacular at home. I’m not sure how strong it is, or if there are any bishops on side.

Also the dialect of Greek used in Greece (And Greek Speaking parishes in North America) is not always mutually intelligable with modern Greek, although I believe it is a lot closer than Old Church Slavonic is to Russian.
 
Would it be Greek for all? Or Greek in some, Church Slavonic in others, etc.? And if so, is there any insistency to maintain it?
Depends on the Church - the Syriac Orthodox use Syriac, Indian Orthodox use Malayalam/Syriac, Ethiopians use Ge’ez, Copts use Coptic and Arabic, Armenians use Armenian, etc…
 
Which would be considered “dead languages”? If any “dead languages” are used, is there an insistence to keep them?
 
\I believe even Russian is used in some of the ROCOR churches.\

Not according to a ROCOR priest of my aquaintance. I asked him about this very question. He told me that a priest in Moscow read the liturgical Gospel in Russian and was disciplined for doing so. There is strictly no permission to celebrate any part of the Liturgy in modern Russian, except for the sermon.
 
I have heard that in Orthodox missions over the ages the local languages were adopted into the Liturgy. Is there any truth in this? If so, and if there was an insistence to maintain a liturgical language, how were these two apparently conflicting positions reconciled?
Which would be considered “dead languages”? If any “dead languages” are used, is there an insistence to keep them?
A living language is learned from the parents in the nursery, is spoken at the dinner table/breakfast table and by the children in the street. It is prone to adaptation and change, developing idioms and slang and borrowing words from other languages through use.

I think it can be said that koine Greek and old church Slavonic do not fit this description (I hesitate to use the term ‘dead’), however they are at the root of modern languages and can be understood with some difficulty by native speakers of the modern descendant languages.

One has to remember that until nearly modern times many (or most) people were not very literate. In rural parts of the America, eastern Europe, Asia and Africa this situation persisted for most of Christian history. The people would be catechized in person with the spoken voice. Even assuming the prayers matched the beliefs of the church a parallel translation missal does not help the illiterate.

One of the best benefits of having an accurate modern translation of the liturgy is it’s catechetical value. This is specifically why Ss Cyril and Methodios used Slavonic originally, they were not trying to establish a liturgical language which should not change, but one which was well understood by the present population. (I don’t think they actually anticipated that the widely spread out Slavic population would develop so many different languages in a few hundred years.)

One of the most serious drawbacks to keeping an old translation is that the community may not fully understand what is prayed, and the faith may therefore be subject to distortion by those who undertake to “teach” the faith but are themselves not qualified, or influenced by ideas outside the received teachings.

In the east, the church is notoriously conservative, so I think one can say that a prevailing attitude is “if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it”. Thus there may be a tendency to hang on to an old (but certifiably correct) translation far too long. One legitimate concern is over the incorrect choice of replacement words and phrases. Rather than update a text many churchmen, even whole synods, would be more comfortable dealing with it as it is, but of course the language can become more and more obscure with passing generations.

But the concept that the liturgy should be clearly understood by the population is well established in the tradition.

I don’t think there is the same emphasis in the east of the liturgical language itself being somehow ‘sacred’, although I have met several people from the western church who carry that idea forward.

From my experience in North America among Byzantine Catholics old church Slavonic is very fondly regarded by those who grew up with it in their liturgy, but most of these people are native English speakers, not Slovak or Polish or Ukrainian speakers, their families having assimilated as Anglophone Americans several generations earlier. The attachment to old church Slavonic (it sounds very nice, of course) is more of a nostalgic reaction to change on the part of the participants.

This reminds me of an amusing (to me, anyway) incident when I was attending a Byzantine Catholic parish:
We had a lovely choir and the the congregation could really chant too. We had six cantors who would rotate responsibility, the singing was awesome. The liturgy was not only beautiful, it was in English!

There was a young and very devout young man from the Latin church (also a member of Opus Dei) who had become a regular parishioner. He was very zealous, but he had not attended for a few weeks. One Sunday I saw him and inquired about his well being, and he told me he attended the Ukrainian Catholic parish church nearby (I was already familiar with the place) and he liked the liturgy there much more, it seemed to him more mystical and sacred… they still used the “old language” from the “old world”.

It so happens that this parish was not using Old Church Slavonic, but modern Ukrainian.
 
\I believe even Russian is used in some of the ROCOR churches.\

Not according to a ROCOR priest of my aquaintance. I asked him about this very question. He told me that a priest in Moscow read the liturgical Gospel in Russian and was disciplined for doing so. There is strictly no permission to celebrate any part of the Liturgy in modern Russian, except for the sermon.
That’s interesting. But ROCOR doesn’t have churches under its juristiction in Russia, does it? I haven’t done much research on it but I thought I had heard of some before, still I guess this means the OCA is the only Church which offers the DL in Russian (St. Nicholas Cathedral has a Russian service every sunday, last I checked).
 
That’s interesting. But ROCOR doesn’t have churches under its juristiction in Russia, does it? I haven’t done much research on it but I thought I had heard of some before, still I guess this means the OCA is the only Church which offers the DL in Russian (St. Nicholas Cathedral has a Russian service every sunday, last I checked).
**
At one time there were some “free Russian Orthodox Churches” somehow aligned with ROCOR.

St. Nicholas Cathedral where?

If it’s in NYC, this is under the Moscow Patriarchate, which uses Slavonic, NOT modern Russian.**
In the east, the church is notoriously conservative, so I think one can say that a prevailing attitude is “if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it”. Thus there may be a tendency to hang on to an old (but certifiably correct) translation far too long. One legitimate concern is over the incorrect choice of replacement words and phrases. Rather than update a text many churchmen, even whole synods, would be more comfortable dealing with it as it is, but of course the language can become more and more obscure with passing generations.
According to what I read somewhere, every time a new printing is needed of the Romanian Orthodox liturgical books, they are very carefully examined first to remove any words or phrases that might be misunderstood according to the current standards of Romanian. Thus, as this source put it, liturgical Romanian is truly the "language of the people."
 
\I believe even Russian is used in some of the ROCOR churches.\

Not according to a ROCOR priest of my aquaintance. I asked him about this very question. He told me that a priest in Moscow read the liturgical Gospel in Russian and was disciplined for doing so. There is strictly no permission to celebrate any part of the Liturgy in modern Russian, except for the sermon.
One should also note, however, that Russian Church Slavonic is a minor dialect difference from the Ukrainain/Rusyn/Slovak/Slovenian Church Slavonic.
 
**
At one time there were some “free Russian Orthodox Churches” somehow aligned with ROCOR.

St. Nicholas Cathedral where?

If it’s in NYC, this is under the Moscow Patriarchate, which uses Slavonic, NOT modern Russian.**
The OCA Cathedral.

edit: My mistake, I just checked their website, it says “Church Slavonic”.
 
My parish uses English, with the exception that some litanies are multilingual to express the catholicity of the Orthodox faith. When I was worshiping with the Maronites for about 18 months, I understood that they had no “liturgical language” per se, but certain parts of the liturgy had to be in Syriac (which I have no problem with).

In Christ,
Andrew
 
When I was worshiping with the Maronites for about 18 months, I understood that they had no “liturgical language” per se, but certain parts of the liturgy had to be in Syriac (which I have no problem with).
Not exactly true. At the risk of being attacked by various and sundry forces, I have to say this: contrary to what some might say, the proper liturgical language of the Maronites is Syriac. That it’s use has dissipated to the point where it’s no longer recognized as such is a disgrace.
 
Not exactly true. At the risk of being attacked by various and sundry forces, I have to say this: contrary to what some might say, the proper liturgical language of the Maronites is Syriac. That it’s use has dissipated to the point where it’s no longer recognized as such is a disgrace.
I would have to agree. Thank you for the correction. I recall my former Maronite priest saying that it had been mandated by the Patriarchate in Bkerke that the entrance dialogue and the institution narrative had to be in Syriac, but the rest of the liturgy could be in any language. Is this accurate?

In Christ,
Andrew
 
I would have to agree. Thank you for the correction. I recall my former Maronite priest saying that it had been mandated by the Patriarchate in Bkerke that the entrance dialogue and the institution narrative had to be in Syriac, but the rest of the liturgy could be in any language. Is this accurate?

In Christ,
Andrew
Unfortunately, yes, that is more-or-less correct. Mar Nasrallah was apparently attempting to mitigate (to an infinitesimally small degree) the infectious acts of the Novus Ordo-inspired school of neo-latinization. 😦
 
As far as ROCOR goes, the ROCOR monastery I visited had all its services in English.
 
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