Liturgical/sacred art and its devolution (?)

[Candescent]

After having seen those same churches, my view was quite the opposite. The world needs beauty, and it seems that the Church is one of the last custodians of it. It seems that people are increasingly calling the beautiful ugly and embracing the ugly as “sophisticated” (a modern form of Gnosticism). The Church is open to all. The rich and poor alike can experience that “foretaste of heaven” that truly beautiful churches offer. Have you ever seen an ugly Orthodox church? They understand this principle. Even the tiny Greek Orthodox chapel on the hill above Corinth, attended by only a few townspeople, is more inspiring than that one wealthy American church I’m thinking of which has no statues, icons, imagery, or even a crucifix.

l.

I couldn’t agree more.
And beauty is a tool, that helps us to step outside our own troubles and mundane lives and focus on the eternal.

 

[YoungTradCath]

do you think it might have anything to do with ecumenism? many decades of trying to steer closer to the protestant ship hoping they might jump on board. so change the appearance of the church, no more traditional scary catholic art. architects and bishops are the big culprits maybe more than artists as art develops by natural selection. with the loss of the patron system after the protestant reformation artists will produce what will sell or else they teach.

A few thoughts.

No one, except perhaps those possessed by demons, can resist beauty.
We’ve tried iconoclasm and philistinism a few times in Church history, most recently several decades ago, and it has failed magnificently every time.
Changing the Catholic Church to make it look Protestant doesn’t make Protestants want to join It; why would they be attracted to more of the same?
What do you mean by “scary catholic art?”

And then there is that grotesque thing in the Papal audience hall, which when first unveiled, was called the “spinach bomb” because of it’s resemblance to an exploding bowl of leafy greens. I have never heard anyone say kind things about it, which to me looks more like an apparition from hell than flying spinach. Beauty may be in the eye of the beholder, but some eyes need corrective lenses.

That grotesque thing looks truly hellish to me.

 

[Sarabande]

do you think it might have anything to do with ecumenism? many decades of trying to steer closer to the protestant ship hoping they might jump on board. so change the appearance of the church, no more traditional scary catholic art. architects and bishops are the big culprits maybe more than artists as art develops by natural selection. with the loss of the patron system after the protestant reformation artists will produce what will sell or else they teach.

I don’t really think it has anything to do between “Protestant” and “Catholic” art. I say this mainly because, as a musician who has worked in many mainline Protestant churches, I’ve gotten to know many and various church musicians. At least in these mainline denominations, their ideas and tastes in art and music is quite the opposite as to what you may implying. They want the best and they pay for the best… or at least as close to the best as they can afford. It’s not uncommon in some of these churches I’ve freelanced in, that you will find Catholic choral motets or other repertoire… music you barely hear anymore in actual Catholic parishes. That said, I do think I understand what you are getting at. There are many non-denominational congregations which are housed in industrial-looking buildings, use music which may not be the highest in art, although is often times well-executed (not always the case in Catholic parishes which use similar music).

Also, Catholic church music and many of their musicians have a lousy reputation amongst their colleagues in the church music world. Our reputation is that we have the lowest taste in music and have some of the most mediocre to lousy instrumentalists/singers. When you are asked where you work, you are almost hesitant to say where because once they realize it’s Catholic, there is that “Oh, how nice,” comment, translated to “Oh, I’ve sized you up and know that the music you do is c-r-a-p and your musicianship is more than likely almost as bad if not as bad or worse.” I mean, you even get that with other Catholic music directors and musicians who work at parishes which actually do “good” music and have stellar musicianship. They either assume you’re the stereotype Catholic musician or a good musician whose parish does only P&W music, and assume you will make poor artistic choices in the classical repertoire they are doing in their liturgies. Once it’s discovered that I am a good musician and very proficient at what I do in my technique and music repertoire and that my training and expertise is in classical and other sacred repertoire (chant, polyphony, etc.) there is then a sigh of relief and the comment that they were happy I didn’t fit the negative reputation of a Catholic musician as well as a typical singer (whole different can of worms there… stereotype that singers aren’t musicians).

 

[Paddy_Walker]

A few thoughts.
…
Changing the Catholic Church to make it look Protestant doesn’t make Protestants want to join It; why would they be attracted to more of the same?
What do you mean by “scary catholic art?”

…

i think protestants are paranoid about religious art. religious art seems to scare them. i have seen a church of england type building, inside there are nice heavy solid timber picture frames, like some old style stations of the cross might have, but laughably, instead of pictures in the picture frames there is a black pegboard and white plastic numbers, chapters and verses. no art is allowed only these ridiculous looking framed plastic numbers.
many old catholic churches are being remodeled and the first casualties are the traditional statues. i think its a wasted effort, if it is true that this is an attempt to woo protestants. religious art is just one of many excuses to stay away from catholicism.