Liturgical shakeup

[benedictgal]

There are actually, to my knowledge, no instances where the faithful can surround the altar during the Eucharist Prayer.

If memory serves, this was supposed to have been cleared up by Cardinal Arinze as late as 2004 when he instructed a group to not surround the altar during the Eucharistic Prayer.

While liturgies for childrern may have certain adaptations, surrounding the altar is not one of them.

Gonig back to the OP, it is certainly encouraging to see the caliber of clergy that the Holy Father has selected for the positions of consultors to the Office of Liturgy for the Supreme Pontiff. Fr. Uwe Lang’s name is of particular interest since he wrote the book “Turning Towards the Lord”, a work that supports the ad orientsum position. Incidentally, the former Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger wrote the foreword to the small volume.

 

[japhy]

inviting children to stand near the altar during the Liturgy of the Eucharist is allowed in certain circumstances, within the rubrics of certain Masses for Children.

NAME ONE

There are actually, to my knowledge, no instances where the faithful can surround the altar during the Eucharist Prayer.

We should heed EasterJoy’s other comment:

This is perhaps straying a little bit off-thread, though?

That discussion belongs in another thread. This thread is about the changes the Pope has made to his “liturgical entourage” (if you will).

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf makes a couple interesting observations on his blog, WDTPRS, as usual:
What I find more interesting here is that Fr. Manlio Sodi, SDB, was bumped from the Office of Ceremonies. I have written about Fr. Sodi’s vile little pamphlet/book which in English would be entitled “The Missal of Pius V: Why the Latin Mass in the Third Millennium?”. Sodi launches a long attack on Pope Benedict’s Summorum Pontificum.

Sodi forcefully stated that the older liturgy was “abrogated” and “abolished”. He works from the perspective that people who want the older Mass are set against the wondrous reforms of Vatican II.

Ooops!

And yet Sodi was an editor of the edition of the 1962 Missale Romanum published through the Vatican Press. Thus, he bites the hand that feeds him. Sodi’s name was also once being bandied about as a possible successor of Archbp. Ranjith at the CDW should he be moved from his post. You don’t hear his name anymore.

 

[MrS]

We should heed EasterJoy’s other comment:

This discussion belongs in another thread. This thread is about the changes the Pope has made to his “liturgical entourage” (if you will).

Perhaps, but I was thinking that a particular poster here also needed a “shake up”, and the Pope was busy.

 

[benedictgal]

Originally Posted by japhy
We should heed EasterJoy’s other comment:

This discussion belongs in another thread. This thread is about the changes the Pope has made to his “liturgical entourage” (if you will).

Thanks for pointing that one out, japhy.

I do welcome these changes that the Holy Father has made. The first shake-up concerned the choirmaster of the Sistene Chapel Choir. The second one involved replacing one Marini with another one. The third one pretty much wiped the slate clean.

I am awaiting the next email from chiesa to see what Sandro Magister makes of all the changes.

 

[lvn4Him]

I appologize if I started an “off-thread” discussion. I think I just got a little excited when I read the topic and articles (maybe not as closely as I should have). My intent was to use my personal experience as an example of how far some parishes may have strayed from traditional liturgy. My perception of the pope’s changes is as a move toward liturgical reform to “shape up” those parishes that have gone their own way.( Forgive me if I’m wrong in my perception.)
When my husband and I approached with the parish priest about the practices he used that we found to be liturgical abuses, we realized this may not just be on the parish level. When my husband told him we would be contacting the bishop concerning these matters, the priest very arrogantly told us that we would be directed back to him because he is the diocese liturgist. So Oh boy, here we go!
As new converts (this past Easter vigil), we are just so used to being able to go to a valid mass at any Catholic church we step foot into. I definitely see the need for reform in this manner.

 

[Like]

Perhaps, but I was thinking that a particular poster here also needed a “shake up”, and the Pope was busy.

 

[pnewton]

Also, the remarks imply an “inside knowledge” about the Holy Father’s plans, which I personally think most of us on CAF do not have.

Quite right, but that does not mean we can not have an idea of what the Holy Father thinks about some things. He has, after all, written extensively on the liturgy and has some definite opinions that have been made public. How and what he will implement is conjecture. But where would this place (CAF) be without conjecture. Conjecture and personal attacks, that is. I am sorry that you have been the brunt of that.

Personally, I think the “shake-up” will be like most everything else the Holy Father has done and will take place with a slow deliberate implementation. I doubt many very liberal Catholics or very traditionalist Catholics will be pleased, as is usually the case. Yet I trust the Holy Spirit to continue to guide our wonderful Pope in his role of shepherd.

 

[EasterJoy]

NAME ONE
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Don’t get angry with me. It was my impression that it was never allowed, then I came here and found it was allowed, but only for the children at Masses for Children at which the children were the majority of participants, and young children, not teens. I think there was a document to back it up–I normally wouldn’t just take someone’s word on that–but I don’t have it, and I can’t find the thread or CA essay I had in mind. There are exceptions here and there for Masses for Children. It is entirely possible that I simply got my exceptions confused.

At any rate, even if the exception does exist on paper–and if you say it does not, I could believe that, too, as I can’t find anything on looking again–I would not expect the exception is long for this world.

Maybe the liturgical changes the Holy Father is bringing back will be less a shake-up than a calm-down. The shaking up has already happened, to the point that many people don’t know which end is up (myself included, apparently!).

 

[Nickkname]

Well, I’ll be glad when the smoke of Satan - liturgical abuse - has been cleared out of the Church. You can’t really breath when there’s smoke, you know.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

I do not consider it to be arrogance or gloating that people are happily anticipating some liturgical reform from the Vatican. It is not that Rome is trying to, as is so often said, “turn back the clock.” It is rather that someone forgot to wind the clock back in the seventies, and it is now being cleaned, oiled, re-wound, and set forward. Perhaps now Pope Benedict will show us what Vatican II was all about, and what it wasn’t.

 

[pnewton]

It is not that Rome is trying to, as is so often said, “turn back the clock.” It is rather that someone forgot to wind the clock back in the seventies, and it is now being cleaned, oiled, re-wound, and set forward. Perhaps now Pope Benedict will show us what Vatican II was all about, and what it wasn’t.

I like this. Not to deride our pontiff, but I think you bested him in analogies, although his was real good. He said the liturgy was a fresco that had been whitewashed so many times over the centuries. Then in Vatican II we stripped the white-wash away and beheld the brilliant colors of the vibrant liturgy. But while we marvelled at it, the exposure opened the fresco to damage from the elements, so that it was vital we take immediate steps to protect it from damage.

I think the clock analogy rocks.

 

[neitsab]

I’m already awake. I woke up when I converted from Protestantism to Catholicism.

What I object to is acting as though fellow Catholics are “wrong” because they aren’t jumping for joy over some kind of “change” that might possibly be coming even though nothing official has been announced and I doubt any of you are privy to the inside politics of the Vatican enough to know the scoop.

I think it would be better to rejoice inwardly, and gently show others the way, rather than telling us all how “asleep” we are.

The “change” already came. Remember Vatican II? That was the change from hundreds of years of standards to the Liberalization of the Catholic Church. What we are jumping for joy about is not change, but reverting back to our traditional religion, the religion of reverence for our Lord and Savior [edited]. If this is coming to pass, I suspect you and many other Catholics who have come from Protestantism, will not like the strictness that comes with it. You will no longer have choices, ie: how to take the Eucharist, whether to stand or kneel, to wear a veil on ones head (women), to be silent in church, etc. The Church will no longer be liberal as it is now, (for the last 40 years) you will have to conform.

 

[japhy]

You will no longer have choices … to be silent in church.

Surely you don’t think the Church will abandon its desire for vocal participation of the faithful at Mass! She desires to return to us (the laity) the treasure of Gregorian chant, for us to sing and not just hear.

 

[pnewton]

Surely you don’t think the Church will abandon its desire for vocal participation of the faithful at Mass! She desires to return to us (the laity) the treasure of Gregorian chant, for us to sing and not just hear.

No more likely than mandatory veils.