Liturgy and Ritual

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anamchara said:
Ok, it actually got to be funny watching that! I have never seen that or anything like in any parish I’ve ever been in and I can assure you I’d remember it! Oh too funny, they sure had something in mind didn’t they?.
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That you found it funny instead of appalling is a symptom of the problem.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
That you found it funny instead of appalling is a symptom of the problem.
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Aww now come on, don’t get like that. It was ridiculous looking and frankly funny however it doesn’t mean I like it. I’m not sure I understand what the priest was trying to do with this mass but I would wonder if it was a valid mass.
 
I’d love to talk to some of these ‘many’ - they certainly don’t seem to live anywhere near me!
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I think that the author doesn’t actually mean that these people, if quizzed on it, would actually say that the sign of peace is the “high point” of the Mass. I think he means that the way some folks carry on, it surely seems that they think it is the “high point” of the Mass.

I really don’t think he means that this is an unquestionably universal problem, but it is one of many. I’ve seen it personally, and I have heard from reputable sources that the problem exists. Is it the only problem? No, but the author really only covered it in one sentence.
 
anamchara said:
I remember once a few years back someone on a Catholic board posted a picture of a “clown mass” and I’ll be darned if there weren’t clowns dressed all up and celebrating mass…later I heard the whole thing was a fake. It was pretty silly looking I must admit. :eek:
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LOL…some folks are easily taken in by all kinds of hoaxes.
BTW, I went to that site and it’s by the adoremus society. I’m wondering if that group is sanctioned by the Vatican, or if it’s a splinter group that seeks to overtake the True Church which has accepted Vatican2.
 
anamchara said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by netmil(name removed by moderator)
How about if the words of the Consecration are changed to suit the community?
Or if the community recites the words of the Consecration with the priest?

Or a nun who gives a Homily?

I have not seen this either netmil, I think you need to get another vedio for me. The last few years I do keep hearing about this but I haven’t seen it. When I do I promise I’ll come on here and eat my words 🙂 I should get “computerguy” in here he is from my diocese…maybe he has seen this.
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It happens to the pt. that the Church has had to address these abuses.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html#Chapter

[51.] Only those Eucharistic Prayers are to be used which are found in the Roman Missal or are legitimately approved by the Apostolic See, and according to the manner and the terms set forth by it. “It is not to be tolerated that some Priests take upon themselves the right to compose their own Eucharistic Prayers”[129] or to change the same texts approved by the Church, or to introduce others composed by private individuals.[130]

[52.] The proclamation of the Eucharistic Prayer, which by its very nature is the climax of the whole celebration, is proper to the Priest by virtue of his Ordination. It is therefore an abuse to proffer it in such a way that some parts of the Eucharistic Prayer are recited by a Deacon, a lay minister, or by an individual member of the faithful, or by all members of the faithful together. The Eucharistic Prayer, then, is to be recited by the Priest alone in full.[131]

64.] The homily, which is given in the course of the celebration of Holy Mass and is a part of the Liturgy itself,[142] “should ordinarily be given by the Priest celebrant himself. He may entrust it to a concelebrating Priest or occasionally, according to circumstances, to a Deacon, but never to a layperson.[143] In particular cases and for a just cause, the homily may even be given by a Bishop or a Priest who is present at the celebration but cannot concelebrate”.[144]

[66.] The prohibition of the admission of laypersons to preach within the Mass applies also to seminarians, students of theological disciplines, and those who have assumed the function of those known as “pastoral assistants”; nor is there to be any exception for any other kind of layperson, or group, or community, or association.[146]
 
Karianne said:
LOL…some folks are easily taken in by all kinds of hoaxes.
BTW, I went to that site and it’s by the adoremus society. I’m wondering if that group is sanctioned by the Vatican, or if it’s a splinter group that seeks to overtake the True Church which has accepted Vatican2.
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I hadn’t though of that. hmmm
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
Which non-existant Clown Mass was that?
This one?
http://www.bettnet.com/blog/images/uploads/clownbread.jpg
or this one?
http://www.bettnet.com/blog/images/uploads/diversity.jpg
or this one in 2002?

romancatholicblog.typepad.com/roman_catholic_blog/2006/12/a_sacrilegious_.html
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Actually, Netmil(name removed by moderator), the clown ministry is practiced by the Lutherans. I believe Aramchara is Roman Catholic and I thought that you were too.
Perhaps not?
 
Karianne said:
LOL…some folks are easily taken in by all kinds of hoaxes.
BTW, I went to that site and it’s by the adoremus society. I’m wondering if that group is sanctioned by the Vatican, or if it’s a splinter group that seeks to overtake the True Church which has accepted Vatican2.
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All you have to do is go to their Mission Statement and find out it is not a splinter group.
  1. Adoremus fully and unreservedly accepts the Second Vatican Council as an act of the Church’s supreme Magisterium (teaching authority) guided by the Holy Spirit, and regards its documents as an expression, in our time, of the word of Christ Himself for His Bride, the Church.
    5. Adoremus believes the aim of Liturgy is union with Christ in communion with the Church. The experience of the past thirty years since Vatican II – declining Mass attendance, dramatic decreases in priestly and religious vocations, diminished belief in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist and in other core doctrines of the Catholic Church, and a widespread loss of the sense of the sacred – makes clear the need for genuine liturgical reform.
    6. Adoremus’s guiding principle for authentic liturgical reform is enunciated in Sacrosanctum Concilium, §23:
    … there must be no innovations unless the good of the Church genuinely and certainly requires them, and care must be taken that any new form adopted should in some way grow organically from forms already existing.
    7. Adoremus, in a spirit of obedience, also accepts the liturgical changes approved by appropriate Church authorities since the Council as the legitimate exercise of the Church’s disciplinary authority over the Liturgy. Adoremus seeks a more authentic observance of the liturgical norms approved since the Council.
http://www.adoremus.org/faq.htm
 
Karianne said:
Actually, Netmil(name removed by moderator), the clown ministry is practiced by the Lutherans. I believe Aramchara is Roman Catholic and I thought that you were too.
Perhaps not?
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Um, the ministry was connected with the Lutherans but each Priest is Roman Catholic. Read the captions again. Not too many Lutheran churches named “Our Lady of* Anything”*

The second picture is from St. Agnes Catholic Church and thank the Holy Lord someone was smart enough to be upset by it.
 
Karianne said:
BTW, I went to that site and it’s by the adoremus society. I’m wondering if that group is sanctioned by the Vatican, or if it’s a splinter group that seeks to overtake the True Church which has accepted Vatican2.
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JMJ + OBT​

The Adoremus Society is an association of laity and clergy who are dedicated to authentic liturgical renewal in the Catholic Church as envisioned by the Fathers of the Second Vatican Council. Adoremus is not a church organization managed by the hierarchy, like a subcommittee of a national bishops’ concerence; it is more along the lines of EWTN.

And yes, this group is approved of “by the Vatican;” check out this article:

Cardinal Arinze Blesses Adoremus Office

The blessing took place on November 11, 2006.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA
 
SnorterLuster said:
All you have to do is go to their Mission Statement and find out it is not a splinter group.
  1. Adoremus fully and unreservedly accepts the Second Vatican Council as an act of the Church’s supreme Magisterium (teaching authority) guided by the Holy Spirit, and regards its documents as an expression, in our time, of the word of Christ Himself for His Bride, the Church.
    5. Adoremus believes the aim of Liturgy is union with Christ in communion with the Church. The experience of the past thirty years since Vatican II – declining Mass attendance, dramatic decreases in priestly and religious vocations, diminished belief in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist and in other core doctrines of the Catholic Church, and a widespread loss of the sense of the sacred – makes clear the need for genuine liturgical reform.
    6. Adoremus’s guiding principle for authentic liturgical reform is enunciated in Sacrosanctum Concilium, §23:
    … there must be no innovations unless the good of the Church genuinely and certainly requires them, and care must be taken that any new form adopted should in some way grow organically from forms already existing.
    7. Adoremus, in a spirit of obedience, also accepts the liturgical changes approved by appropriate Church authorities since the Council as the legitimate exercise of the Church’s disciplinary authority over the Liturgy. Adoremus seeks a more authentic observance of the liturgical norms approved since the Council.
http://www.adoremus.org/faq.htm
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Thanks snortluster, If there is all these abuses then I suppose they have their work cut out for them.
 
whosebob said:
JMJ + OBT​

The Adoremus Society is an association of laity and clergy who are dedicated to authentic liturgical renewal in the Catholic Church as envisioned by the Fathers of the Second Vatican Council. Adoremus is not a church organization managed by the hierarchy, like a subcommittee of a national bishops’ concerence; it is more along the lines of EWTN.

And yes, this group is approved of “by the Vatican;” check out this article:

Cardinal Arinze Blesses Adoremus Office

The blessing took place on November 11, 2006.

In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.

IC XC NIKA
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Thanks whosebob—for this information and the initial link.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator) said:
Um, the ministry was connected with the Lutherans but each Priest is Roman Catholic. Read the captions again. Not too many Lutheran churches named “Our Lady of* Anything”*

The second picture is from St. Agnes Catholic Church and thank the Holy Lord someone was smart enough to be upset by it.
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The Catholic church does not have a clown ministry.
 
Karianne said:
The Catholic church does not have a clown ministry.
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Oh Lord now I’m laughing. I did read the caption…it looks like it was an attempt at being eccumenical? This picture as been around for so long now! I wonder how old it actually is.
 
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