Liturgy committee meeting

[Noble]

Hello,
If you were asked to join a liturgy committee, what recommendations would you bring to the table?
I for one, would be open to prayers, hymns and responses in Latin.

What would you say?

-Noble

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Hello,
If you were asked to join a liturgy committee, what recommendations would you bring to the table?
I for one, would be open to prayers, hymns and responses in Latin.

What would you say?

-Noble

The first thing I would suggest is that the Liturgy committee get on a regular training program reading and undertaanding the Liturgy Documents of the Church, the Bishop. First clearly understanding what can, then what should be done. Every Liturgy Committee I have ever known when one mentions a GIRM everyone wants to install hand sanitizers near the doors!!

 

[Phemie]

The first thing I would suggest is that the Liturgy committee get on a regular training program reading and undertaanding the Liturgy Documents of the Church, the Bishop. First clearly understanding what can, then what should be done. Every Liturgy Committee I have ever known when one mentions a GIRM everyone wants to install hand sanitizers near the doors!!

AMEN! I never had a meeting without having the GIRM and other Liturgy documents on the center of the table for everyone to have access to.

Unfortunately, not every priest wants to hear ‘document such and such says…’ I’ve had a finger wagged in my face and “We have never paid attention to the documents before so I don’t know why you think we’re going to start now” yelled at me when I pointed out our abusive use of EMHCs.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

AMEN! I never had a meeting without having the GIRM and other Liturgy documents on the center of the table for everyone to have access to.

Unfortunately, not every priest wants to hear ‘document such and such says…’ I’ve had a finger wagged in my face and “We have never paid attention to the documents before so I don’t know why you think we’re going to start now” yelled at me when I pointed out our abusive use of EMHCs.

Sometimes in addition to ignorance of Church documents,laws and norms we also have issues of authority.

 

[buffalo]

I would start with this quiz. It is essential they are grounded in the lirugy.

Some of the craziness I have heard from people with Masters of Divinity degrees in liturgy committee

1. Let the kids do the homily - when challenged the reply was - the professor said it was OK
2. Let’s stand around the altar
3. let’s liven it up with liturgial dance
4. make the liturgy more entertaining
5. let’s have a play during the Mass

it goes on and on.

 

[Digitonomy]

Is music always a separate committee, or is it sometimes wrapped into the liturgy committee? If the latter, I’d recommend that all congregational songs be sung one-third lower than what’s written.

 

[benedictgal]

I served on four: one in my parish in Austin, one in my Cathedral, the other in my dad’s parish and at the diocesan level. Let me tell you. It’s like working for the Legislature. Everyone likes to eat sausage, but, no one likes to see how it’s made.

Everyone coming in seems to be an expert. My best learning experience came from Austin. As the newbie, I was given the Sacrmentary, told to read it from cover to cover, especially the GIRM and then meet with the Pastoral Associate on Liturgy prior to the next meeting for a one-to-one session. I learned a lot. I was also encouraged to read the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy. This actually served me in good stead for my work on the diocesan liturgical commission when I returned home.

At my parish in Austin, I had the mixed blessing of working with the Paulists who, although had somewhat liberal tendencies where the preaching was concerned, but, really loved excellent music (we used the Worship III hymnal and no OCP stuff–all organ music). We also didn’t take any liberties with the rites. Our Liturgist was very keen on that.

When I returned home, I volunteered at our Cathedral (before it became a cathedral) and the pastor (who became the first rector and was also a dear friend) asked me to plan Holy Week for the parish. My friends at my old Austin parish helped me a lot and it turned out magnificent. We also established a rudimentary liturgical committee at the future cathedral. This was a bit of a challenge because no one (outside the pastor and me) had any idea what liturgy entailed. But, with the pastor’s guidance, we managed to get things going.

When we became a diocese, I served on the planning committee for the diocesan Mass. This was worse than making sausage as I went home sick (unbeknownst to anyone, not even the bishop) because the person who chose the music and I clashed. He was heavily into the Bob Hurd/OCP stuff. The music was awful. I chose the readings and the whole thing was out of synch. However, when it came time for us to plan the ltturgy for the Bishop taking possession of his cathedral (the installation/erection of the diocese Mass was at our civic center), things were 180-degrees to the right of what occured at the installation Mass. There was Latin, there was beauty. I mean it was enough to make Benedict smile.

The diocesan liturgical committee meetings were almost as painful as the initial planning meeting for the installation Mass. There was one music minister who had no formal training whatsoever and was not familiar with Musica Sacram, the Constitution, nor the GIRM and had a total disdain for the organ. She only favored the guitar. I had the backing of the initial rector and the initial diocesan director of Divine Worship (a priest with an STD in liturgy) so that helped.

Just make sure that the committee knows the documents, especially the Constitution, the GIRM, Musica Sacram, John Paul’s Chirograph on Sacred Music and Redemptionis Sacramentum. The last document will save you a lot of heartache and prescription medicine for migraines.

 

[i_have_no_names]

Is music always a separate committee, or is it sometimes wrapped into the liturgy committee? If the latter, I’d recommend that all congregational songs be sung one-third lower than what’s written.

I second that.

 

[Noble]

The liturgy committee also handles the music.
The instruments currently used are:
1.) Guitar
2.) Base
3.) Flute
4.) Electric piano.

and finally the organ but it is never used with the other instruments.

 

[benedictgal]

The liturgy committee also handles the music.
The instruments currently used are:
1.) Guitar
2.) Base
3.) Flute
4.) Electric piano.

and finally the organ but it is never used with the other instruments.

The bass guitar is not really a liturgical instrument as it is primarily used for secular music. There is a provision in the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy that does not allow for instruments that are used primarily for secular puporses to be incorporated into the liturgy; however, everyone seems to forget that clause.

 

[Digitonomy]

The bass guitar is not really a liturgical instrument as it is primarily used for secular music. There is a provision in the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy that does not allow for instruments that are used primarily for secular puporses to be incorporated into the liturgy; however, everyone seems to forget that clause.

I think you’re misinterpreting that document. The piano, for instance, is primarily used for secular purposes, but is perfectly acceptable for liturgical use as well. The document only specifies that the instruments be suitable, or be made suitable for sacred use, not that they be primarily non-secular. I think a bass guitar could fit the bill, although like an organ playing baseball stadium beer anthems, the choice of music for which the guitar is used is critical, and perhaps more critical for this instrument than for some others.

 

[pprimeau1976]

AMEN! I never had a meeting without having the GIRM and other Liturgy documents on the center of the table for everyone to have access to.

Unfortunately, not every priest wants to hear ‘document such and such says…’ I’ve had a finger wagged in my face and “We have never paid attention to the documents before so I don’t know why you think we’re going to start now” yelled at me when I pointed out our abusive use of EMHCs.

Ouch. I would gently ask him if he would like it if a parishioner said to him: “I have never paid attention to your homilies before, so I don’t know why you even give one.”

 

[benedictgal]

I think you’re misinterpreting that document. The piano, for instance, is primarily used for secular purposes, but is perfectly acceptable for liturgical use as well. The document only specifies that the instruments be suitable, or be made suitable for sacred use, not that they be primarily non-secular. I think a bass guitar could fit the bill, although like an organ playing baseball stadium beer anthems, the choice of music for which the guitar is used is critical, and perhaps more critical for this instrument than for some others.

In an interview broadcast on the World Over, Francis Cardinal Arinze was asked a question regarding instruments used for the liturgy. He said that his rule of thumb was that if it were used for a bar or a club, then it is not meant for the Mass. A pipe organ has centuries of liturgical use behind it. The bass guitar does not and is more commonly used at a bar and a dance club than it is any place else.

 

[Phemie]

Ouch. I would gently ask him if he would like it if a parishioner said to him: “I have never paid attention to your homilies before, so I don’t know why you even give one.”

At the time he looked ready to have a stroke. I took his age & health into consideration and bit my tongue, he wasn’t the pastor. After a few days of reflection I handed the pastor my resignation, explaining that I couldn’t teach the EMHCs what they wanted me to teach them when that was in direct opposition to the documents on liturgy. Pastor was happy to see me quit, but he only got rid of me as liturgy chairman. He still has to put up with me as the parish secretary.

 

[pprimeau1976]

I He was heavily into the Bob Hurd/OCP stuff. The music was awful.

It’s hit or miss with OCP and with Bob Hurd. He actually wrote a mass setting based on the traditional Ubi Caritas that was called…Ubi Caritas. Some of the stufff was very reverent and beautiful. Other parts seem to drag on.

 

[JimG]

Hello,
If you were asked to join a liturgy committee, what recommendations would you bring to the table?

I guess I would have to start with: Why is there a Liturgy Committee? We have the Lectionary, the Sacramentary, the GIRM; we know the order of the Mass; we have a choir director. So why are WE here?

 

[Phemie]

I guess I would have to start with: Why is there a Liturgy Committee? We have the Lectionary, the Sacramentary, the GIRM; we know the order of the Mass; we have a choir director. So why are WE here?

Things don’t prepare themselves. I know that as a liturgy committee our mandate was to teach those who joined about liturgy; prepare the liturgies (as in make sure everything/everyone that was required was there); organize the various things that needed to be done in the church, train people for the various ministries, etc. etc. All the things for which the pastor didn’t want to be responsible.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The bass guitar is not really a liturgical instrument as it is primarily used for secular music. There is a provision in the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy that does not allow for instruments that are used primarily for secular puporses to be incorporated into the liturgy; however, everyone seems to forget that clause.

I don’t believe this is true. Please proved specific text, prohibiting a base guitar use at Mass.

We had an upright base, which is used in classical music. A base guitar function is the same, to provide base to the music, which is lousy without it.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

In an interview broadcast on the World Over, Francis Cardinal Arinze was asked a question regarding instruments used for the liturgy. He said that his rule of thumb was that if it were used for a bar or a club, then it is not meant for the Mass. A pipe organ has centuries of liturgical use behind it. The bass guitar does not and is more commonly used at a bar and a dance club than it is any place else.

Not all churches have pipe organs, some only have electric organs, which are also used in bars and clubs.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Getting back to the subject of the thread, liturgical comittees vary from parish to parish. The one I served on, merely coordinated the schedules for music, readers, EMHC and setting up decorations for the church.

The music to be used for the liturgy, was left up to the music ministers of that particular Mass. Our pastor was always involved with the choice of music.

Jim