Liturgy Committee

[scylla]

In my parish we have a liturgy committee made up of the nun and about 10 other people including some who openly dissent from the Church’s teachings. (that is another matter)

I don’t want to really cause trouble in my parish by asking this question there, so I ask it here where I can get a more or less anonymous answer.

Why do we have Liturgy Committees? Isn’t the Mass just supposed to be done according to the GIRM?

Any insight on this would be appreciated.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

I can easily go to extremes and say there is 0 justification for a liturgy committee because the priest could handle everything himself. On the whole, he doesn’t need to make many decisions about a given Mass.

One thing that actually does occur every time there is music, though, is that pieces should be chosen that fit well with the Mass of the day. This doesn’t require a committee, but if there’s no well-informed musician/music director this could be a duty of such a committee.

When it comes down to it, however, the only thing I really see ever justifying a liturgy committee is using one for the biggest Masses of the year for which there are extra ministers that need to be coordinated. For instance, when surging the number of altar servers from 5 to 50 for the Easter Vigil, the priest might appreciate some help in deciding where to seat them and in training them for their specific duties in a liturgy with specifics that only come around once a year.

 

[az_4_faith]

The Pastor of the Parish, under the guidelines of his Bishop, is the only necessary member of a parish “Liturgy Committee”.

Of course, he consults with his associate pastors, colleagues and staff, and even may take a trusted parishioner’s advise from time to time. But the central responsibility for how the liturgy is presented in his parish rests solely on his shoulders. There is no need for a “committee”.

This is something that evolved out of the notion of empowering the laity, and in some places, it can work IF the committee and the pastor are true to the directives of the Church. More often than not, it turns out to be a committee of folks (pastor included) who feel that the liturgy in its present form is “incomplete” and needs to be fluffed or jazzed up. And when things get “out of hand” (adding or altering things that shouldn’t be included in Mass) the pastor may look the other way rather than deal with people who suddenly feel empowered.

You are absolutely right with your reference to the GIRM. It is the only liturgical document necessary, along with the various clarifying publications related to the GIRM published by the Holy See and the USCCB. That’s why the GIRM is included as the first hundred or so pages of the Sacramentary. They’re inseparable.

Outside of environment(decorations)and music I’m not sure what a liturgy committee needs to do to oversee the Masses that an environment committee, a director of music and a sacristan couldn’t do. And they all serve at the will and discretion of the pastor.

 

[ncjohn]

With all due respect, liturgy committees handle much more than just picking out the music, though that is certainly one function.

They are usually responsible for recruiting, training, and scheduling the different ministers that serve at a Mass. They are usually, but not always, responsible for decortating for special feast days. They are usually responsible for making sure that hymnals and missalettes are ordered and available. Sacristans, especially in larger parishes, often are recruited and scheduled by the Liturgy committee.

The size of a committee will vary with many things, such as the size of the parish and number of Masses, or the reporting structure. Most I’ve seen are pretty small, but they can become bigger if, for instance, the different ministers are responsible to different people and each of them is represented on the committee, i.e. the Altar Server coordinator, EMHC coordinator, etc. Sacristans sometimes, but not always, are under the Liturgy committee, as well as the person responsible for keeping altar linens and vestiture cleaned and available.

While it may not take a lot of effort for daily Masses to happen, keeping all the details together for Sunday Masses takes a lot of effort. Rather than denigrating them as being essentially useless, I applaud those who take on those roles.

Peace,

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

With all due respect, liturgy committees handle much more than just picking out the music, though that is certainly one function.

They are usually responsible for recruiting, training, and scheduling the different ministers that serve at a Mass. They are usually, but not always, responsible for decortating for special feast days. They are usually responsible for making sure that hymnals and missalettes are ordered and available. Sacristans, especially in larger parishes, often are recruited and scheduled by the Liturgy committee.

The size of a committee will vary with many things, such as the size of the parish and number of Masses, or the reporting structure. Most I’ve seen are pretty small, but they can become bigger if, for instance, the different ministers are responsible to different people and each of them is represented on the committee, i.e. the Altar Server coordinator, EMHC coordinator, etc. Sacristans sometimes, but not always, are under the Liturgy committee, as well as the person responsible for keeping altar linens and vestiture cleaned and available.

While it may not take a lot of effort for daily Masses to happen, keeping all the details together for Sunday Masses takes a lot of effort. Rather than denigrating them as being essentially useless, I applaud those who take on those roles.

Peace,

I’m a sacristan, so I know there’s a lot to coordinate to pull off a full liturgical year. My contention, however, is that even with lots of different people organizing different aspects of the Masses, there is no real need for a committee to handle these things. For instance, in the parish I grew up in, my mother was in charge of the ministries schedules. Announcements were made at certain times during the year to contact her or father if you were interested in serving and then attend the training offered by whomever father put in charge of it for a particular ministry. She had no need to coordinate her activities with the ladies of the rosary sodality who were washing the linens and decorating the sanctuary and nave, nor did she or the rosary sodality have to consult with the choir director. And so on, and so on. A priest is greatly helped by laymen taking on responsibilities for various elements touching the liturgy, but very seldom will consultation be necessary so frequently as to require some sort of standing committee.

 

[ncjohn]

I’m a sacristan, so I know there’s a lot to coordinate to pull off a full liturgical year. My contention, however, is that even with lots of different people organizing different aspects of the Masses, there is no real need for a committee to handle these things. For instance, in the parish I grew up in, my mother was in charge of the ministries schedules. Announcements were made at certain times during the year to contact her or father if you were interested in serving and then attend the training offered by whomever father put in charge of it for a particular ministry. She had no need to coordinate her activities with the ladies of the rosary sodality who were washing the linens and decorating the sanctuary and nave, nor did she or the rosary sodality have to consult with the choir director. And so on, and so on. A priest is greatly helped by laymen taking on responsibilities for various elements touching the liturgy, but very seldom will consultation be necessary so frequently as to require some sort of standing committee.

That may be true in many cases, but it is also not true in many cases, especially where you have people filling multiple roles.

Centralized vs decentralized management is something that an individual parish needs to determine based on its circumstances. Someone is going to control and coordinate all those different things that have to happen. It just becomes a matter of who that responsibility is going to fall to. There is no blanket “right” answer, nor should one just blow off the idea based on a personal philosophy of “best” management style.

I’ve seen both approaches in action, and I’ve seen both operate effectively. One thing I’ve learned from my many years in management is that it isn’t a “one size fits all” science.

Peace,

 

[Andreas_Hofer]

That may be true in many cases, but it is also not true in many cases, especially where you have people filling multiple roles.

Centralized vs decentralized management is something that an individual parish needs to determine based on its circumstances. Someone is going to control and coordinate all those different things that have to happen. It just becomes a matter of who that responsibility is going to fall to. There is no blanket “right” answer, nor should one just blow off the idea based on a personal philosophy of “best” management style.

I’ve seen both approaches in action, and I’ve seen both operate effectively. One thing I’ve learned from my many years in management is that it isn’t a “one size fits all” science.

Peace,

I think we’re kind of talking past each other because I’m trying to err on the side of strict necessity because the OP asked whether we couldn’t just follow the GIRM, so I was trying to show that there is no technical need whatsoever for a committee, and even practical needs can be accomplished without one. Part of my choice of error is also knowing all the horror stories of committees just as the OP describes. I agree with you, though, that if we move away from strict necessity to “Why might parish X have a liturgy committee?” there are going to be parishes that perceive a legitimate need and fill it well with a committee.

 

[ncjohn]

I think we’re kind of talking past each other because I’m trying to err on the side of strict necessity because the OP asked whether we couldn’t just follow the GIRM, so I was trying to show that there is no technical need whatsoever for a committee, and even practical needs can be accomplished without one. Part of my choice of error is also knowing all the horror stories of committees just as the OP describes. I agree with you, though, that if we move away from strict necessity to “Why might parish X have a liturgy committee?” there are going to be parishes that perceive a legitimate need and fill it well with a committee.

Ok, I agree with you that there is no requirement for one, and that a priest could just decide to handle all of these details on his own. That would never work in our parish, which shares a priest with another parish, but I could see some circumstances where it might be possible. I have also seen those functions coordinated through the parish council, but when I was on the parish council I would not have wanted those responsibilities personally.

The only reason I took exception was because of your statement that

When it comes down to it, however, the only thing I really see ever justifying a liturgy committee is using one for the biggest Masses of the year for which there are extra ministers that need to be coordinated.

As you note, “there are going to be parishes that perceive a legitimate need and fill it well with a committee.” Whether the OP’s parish is one of those is really up to them.

Peace,

 

[prv]

I can easily go to extremes and say there is 0 justification for a liturgy committee because the priest could handle everything himself. On the whole, he doesn’t need to make many decisions about a given Mass.

One thing that actually does occur every time there is music, though, is that pieces should be chosen that fit well with the Mass of the day. This doesn’t require a committee, but if there’s no well-informed musician/music director this could be a duty of such a committee.

When it comes down to it, however, the only thing I really see ever justifying a liturgy committee is using one for the biggest Masses of the year for which there are extra ministers that need to be coordinated. For instance, when surging the number of altar servers from 5 to 50 for the Easter Vigil, the priest might appreciate some help in deciding where to seat them and in training them for their specific duties in a liturgy with specifics that only come around once a year.

I can’t understand how even in a large church you would need 50 altar servers. Can someone please clarify this matter? 50 priests—well, they can concelebrate the Mass as well as distribute communion. 50 altar servers? What do they do, other than get in each other’s way? Whatever the case is, I don’t know why it would take so many people to make the decision for seating arrangements, let alone why people need a real committee for it. Any ideas? Shouldn’t one person coordinate the seating, if that is the major issue?

 

[Beno]

Hi Scylla!

At the church which I previously worked as the director of music, we had a liturgy committee of about 10 people (including the priest) and it was led by the full-time lay pastoral associate because the priest was busy enough with other matters that only the priest can do. The committee met monthly and was represented by those in charge of different liturgical ministries such as: music, art & environment, EMHC, lectors/readers, processions, servers, greeters, and ushers.

I found the committee to be indispensable in the planning and implementation of liturgies primarily for church feasts such as Christ the King, Christmas, Triduum, and Pentecost. Other liturgies that had extra liturgical planning were Catechetical Sunday, Thanksgiving, World Marriage Day, Boy Scout Sunday, Ash Wednesday, liturgies with Baptisms and Anointing of the Sick, and liturgies with RCIA rites. (I’m probably forgetting some others.) Our well planned liturgies necessitated groups of people acting in concert with one another to make liturgies cohesive and seemingly seamless. Of course Triduum is paramount for all liturgists and of itself seems to demand a committee to pull it off successfully.

In my experiences, I found our liturgy committee serving numerous functions: 1) to educate those on the committee about liturgy, 2) to make awareness and communication possible between leaders of different liturgical ministries, 3) to generate and develop ideas that support liturgical demands and ideals using the framework of official Church documents pertaining to liturgy, particularly the GIRM, 4) to plan and implement liturgies that flow seamlessly and cohesively as desired, 5) to ensure that all liturgical roles are filled, and, 6) to provide opportunities for social and spiritual growth among committee members and even their families.

It is necessary for the leader of the committee to have well defined expectations when conducting meetings. A single example of where things can go awry is when the committee is asked to generate ideas when in actuality the committee’s ideas were not really needed, only their assistance to bring pre-existing ideas to reality.

A well organized liturgy committee under the leadership of a knowledgable, organized, and respectful person can be a thing of beauty to the liturgical life of a parish church. It can also be a source of great satisfaction and personal joy to serve on a committee that has a hand in nurturing the spiritual life of church members and visitors. I hope and pray that all parishes with liturgy committees have ones that work well together for God’s great purposes.

 

[KatieD]

I was recently asked to join our quite large parish’s liturgy committee. We seem to have a well organized and reverent person leading our group. Those on the committee are the music director, sacristans, the people who decorate the church, etc. I care for all the vestments at my parish, so I need to know what colors will be needed for different feast days, etc. It’s more a committee of coordinating those things.

 

[puzzleannie]

the only liturgy committee here is the pastor. there is a sacristan, and a coordinator for each Mass, who makes sure the necessary people are scheduled and trained. I think for major feasts and seasons the coordinators meet with others such as altar society who will be decorating, because the pastor has definite ideas what he wants, and will not accept, in the way of decorations, music etc. For instance, if there will be a procession with candles or posada at Christmas, you can’t have the way blocked by banks of poinsettias. If he wants a Jesse tree during advent, it can’t block the speakers for the choir etc.

there is a meeting of everyone concerned, including the janitor who will be setting up the baptismal pool and the RCIA coordinator for the EAster vigil because that does take a lot of coordinating with the music people, servers, deacons, ushers etc. but we do not have a standing committee other than the coordinators who meet with the people from their own Mass.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

In my parish we have a liturgy committee made up of the nun and about 10 other people including some who openly dissent from the Church’s teachings. (that is another matter)

I don’t want to really cause trouble in my parish by asking this question there, so I ask it here where I can get a more or less anonymous answer.

Why do we have Liturgy Committees? Isn’t the Mass just supposed to be done according to the GIRM?

Any insight on this would be appreciated.

God Bless
Scylla

The Liturgy committee should help the pastor insure that the parish is in conformity with the GIRM. That Liturgical education of the prople takes place on a regular basis. For instance if Latin is re-introduced for some prayers in the Mass. The Liturgy committee should hold some classes in the parish for the people to learn the prayers in Latin. That decorations and displays are correct for the liturgical season. That the Music is correct and to provide proper training and on going Formation to Lay Ministers like Readers, Altar Servers, EMHC, Greeters, etc.

 

[John_Lilburne]

I see the Liturgy Committee as being part of the planning process for Mass. The need of importance of this planning is discussed in the GIRM.

From the 2002 General Introduction to the Roman Missal (GIRM) which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :

“106. It is appropriate, at least in cathedrals and in larger churches, to have some competent minister, that is to say a master of ceremonies, to oversee the proper planning of sacred actions and their being carried out by the sacred ministers and the lay faithful with decorum, order, and devotion.”

“111. Among all who are involved with regard to the rites, pastoral aspects, and music there should be harmony and diligence in the effective preparation of each liturgical celebration in accord with the Missal and other liturgical books. This should take place under the direction of the rector of the church and after the consultation with the faithful about things that directly pertain to them. The priest who presides at the celebration, however, always retains the right of arranging those things that are his own responsibility. [footnote 90: Cf. Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 22.]”

“352. … Since, indeed, a variety of options is provided for the different parts of the Mass, it is necessary for the deacon, the lectors, the psalmist, the cantor, the commentator, and the choir to be completely sure before the celebration which text for which each is responsible is to be used and that nothing be improvised. Harmonious planning and carrying out of the rites will great assistance in disposing the faithful to participate in the Eucharist.”

There is a better translation of this last sentence of n. 352 in the GIRM of England and Wales: “Harmonious planning and carrying out of the rites will, to a great extent, help
dispose the hearts and minds of the faithful to participate in the Eucharist.”

 

[az_4_faith]

I see the Liturgy Committee as being part of the planning process for Mass. The need of importance of this planning is discussed in the GIRM.

From the 2002 General Introduction to the Roman Missal (GIRM) which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :

“106. It is appropriate, at least in cathedrals and in larger churches, to have some competent minister, that is to say a master of ceremonies, to oversee the proper planning of sacred actions and their being carried out by the sacred ministers and the lay faithful with decorum, order, and devotion.”

“111. Among all who are involved with regard to the rites, pastoral aspects, and music there should be harmony and diligence in the effective preparation of each liturgical celebration in accord with the Missal and other liturgical books. This should take place under the direction of the rector of the church and after the consultation with the faithful about things that directly pertain to them. The priest who presides at the celebration, however, always retains the right of arranging those things that are his own responsibility. [footnote 90: Cf. Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Sacrosanctum Concilium, no. 22.]”

“352. … Since, indeed, a variety of options is provided for the different parts of the Mass, it is necessary for the deacon, the lectors, the psalmist, the cantor, the commentator, and the choir to be completely sure before the celebration which text for which each is responsible is to be used and that nothing be improvised. Harmonious planning and carrying out of the rites will great assistance in disposing the faithful to participate in the Eucharist.”

There is a better translation of this last sentence of n. 352 in the GIRM of England and Wales: “Harmonious planning and carrying out of the rites will, to a great extent, help
dispose the hearts and minds of the faithful to participate in the Eucharist.”

We have all of this at our parish.

However, the people in charge of these various ministries, as well as the Master of Ceremonies and the Sacristan, have never been called a “Liturgy Committee”. They all perform their duties at the will of the Pastor, but not in a group setting where they’re all together each week.

So I guess maybe we do have a “Liturgy Committee”, but not one with a title. And no one in our parish has the title “Liturgist” except for the pastor.

 

[YADA]

We have a very large parish, 2000 plus families. Our Liturgy Team assists our Pastor plan the Liturgies, train the ministers, reviews and oversees the environment team. Our music minister [staff] and pastoral associate [staff] head up the Liturgy Team. We discuss the documents of the Church [GIRM, Vatican II, etc] before our monthly meetings.

The music, church environment and the training of various ministers is our primary responsibiity, including scheduling. With 5 maases each weekend and 2 daily masses except Saturday when there is only one, scheduling and training ministers is a huge undertaking.

Our Parish via the Liturgy Team put on a Diocesan wide training day on the GIRM when it was revised in 2002. That was a wonderful challenge, but a significant amount of work.

Also, “Litugry” is the public work of the Church and that includes more than just planning for Mass, even the ‘Big’ Masses like the Triduum. It means those evenings when we might offer Evening Prayer [Liturgy of the Hours], Lenten Stations of the Cross with Soup Supper, perhaps even a Rosery. We work with our priest to obtain active and proper participation of all the faithful at Mass, the ministers, servers, and Joe and Jane Catholic in the pew.

We strive to have our Masses in conformity with the teachings of the Church [the GIRM], the readings, the actions, the prayers, the music, and the environment.

Our priests are busy. At least ours is glad to have help with all the details. It frees him up to do those things that only he can do. Would you rather have your priest busy reviewing the environment decorations [Liturgical color and proper symbols] or visiting you in the hospital or manning the confessional?

 

[az_4_faith]

YADA: You asked whether we would want a pastor reviewing the environmental decorations or visiting the sick and hearing confessions.

This statement is very important.

Of course priests are very, very busy, and a Pastor who delegates well will make sure he has good faithful people in charge of these various ministries.

However, the Pastor must review these ministries closely to assure that they are conforming with the directives of the Church. In the Parish hierarchy, the buck stops with him so to speak, so it is his responsibility to make sure things don’t go awry, as well as performing his priestly duties such as visiting the faithful in the hospital and hearing confessions, etc.

The troubles that I’ve seen involved Pastors who appoint a liturgy committee, then use a “hands off” approach because he feels now someone else is in charge to do the work. Then those with hidden agendas, who want to see the liturgies executed differently than what the Church directs, begin to have their field day. This is what we look to avoid.

If he himself is faithful to the GIRM and puts competent people in charge, his work load is greatly relieved. But he still must be diligent in overseeing the various liturgical ministries.

 

[YADA]

I agree. The priest [Pastor] is the responsible parish authority. Of course it is the Bishop who holds the real seat of authority, but I know exactly where you are coming from.

The fact is that even in small parishes, the priest cannot do it all. In the past when we had many more priests than we have now it was more likely. But even today, lay people have to assist in home visits, taking the Eucharist to those unable to go to Mass. I know a priest who said the first parish he was assigned to, this responsibility was rotated among the various priests. They visited the homebound of the parish once a week. It has been twenty years since that was the case for him. There is no way our two priests could manage visiting homebound parishioners each week. We do weekly, lay led, communion services at several nursing homes with Mass once a month at each one. Rides to Mass, Euchrist to the homebound, all performed by trained [by Liturgy Team] ministers.

At our Team meetings; in addition to the planning, we study the GIRM and the documents of Vatican II… We do this at every meeting. And nothing we do is not approved by our priest [who is known to be an expert in [and faithful to] proper Liturgy.

Abuses should be handled. My problem is assuming that the Liturgy Team [or Committee] or those responsible have alterior motives. They are probably [for the most part] doing their best. And I have met a few priests who failed to understand the GIRM or good liturgy, but they were great parish administrators! My Liturgy professor [a Holy Cross priest] had some great liturgy ‘war’ stories…

If you are concerned about the Liturgies of your parish…get involved, volunteer, become a member of the Liturgy Team…be part of the solution. Do not become the complaint department or [most importantly] the number one complainer nor the Liturgy police!

It is every catholics responsibility to understand the Mass and actively participate in the work of the Church. That may include volunteering outside of the one hour attendance on Sunday morning. This could be especially true if you are knowledgable about the GIRM. It coulld be that God wants you to use that knowledge to assist you Pastor.

 

[CRW]

In my parish we have a liturgy committee made up of the nun and about 10 other people including some who openly dissent from the Church’s teachings. (that is another matter)

I don’t want to really cause trouble in my parish by asking this question there, so I ask it here where I can get a more or less anonymous answer.

Why do we have Liturgy Committees? Isn’t the Mass just supposed to be done according to the GIRM?

Any insight on this would be appreciated.

God Bless
Scylla

As Pope John Paul II wrote the Plenary Assembly of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments a month before his death: “It is urgent that in parish communities, in associations and in ecclesial movements there be assured adequate courses of formation, so that the liturgy be better known in the richness of its language and that it be lived in fullness. To the measure to which this is done, the result will be benefits showing themselves in personal and community life” (Letter of John Paul II to Cardinal Arinze, March 3, 2005, No. 5).

 

[JimR-OCDS]

With all due respect, liturgy committees handle much more than just picking out the music, though that is certainly one function.

They are usually responsible for recruiting, training, and scheduling the different ministers that serve at a Mass. They are usually, but not always, responsible for decortating for special feast days. They are usually responsible for making sure that hymnals and missalettes are ordered and available. Sacristans, especially in larger parishes, often are recruited and scheduled by the Liturgy committee.

The size of a committee will vary with many things, such as the size of the parish and number of Masses, or the reporting structure. Most I’ve seen are pretty small, but they can become bigger if, for instance, the different ministers are responsible to different people and each of them is represented on the committee, i.e. the Altar Server coordinator, EMHC coordinator, etc. Sacristans sometimes, but not always, are under the Liturgy committee, as well as the person responsible for keeping altar linens and vestiture cleaned and available.

While it may not take a lot of effort for daily Masses to happen, keeping all the details together for Sunday Masses takes a lot of effort. Rather than denigrating them as being essentially useless, I applaud those who take on those roles.

Peace,

Right you are John!