Liturgy in Holland Catholic Church

[Mamat]

Is the liturgy suppose to be the same every where or is it permissible to change things a bit in other countries? Example, changing the words of the Agnus Dei to “King of Kings/Prince of Peace” or leaving off the part immediately following the Lord’s Prayer? The priest here in Holland never says the …"Deliver us, Lord,… " part and we never say…“For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever.”

This is a very culturally mixed community with Catholic’s from all over the world worshipping here. It is a wonderful service and the priest gives meaning to each part of the Mass unlike I have ever seen before. He communicates with the people making the theme of the Mass relevant in small ways. He incorporates the liturgical calender into the service giving meaning to the many parts of the church year. He includes the feast of saints and celebrates the work of church members with special recognition given to alter servers, ushers, Eucharistic ministers, teachers.

I think that this Mass is what Vatican II had in mind when it made all those changes but there are a few irregular things, like once this year a lay person did the homily and they never kneel here. They stand through the consecration.

Are such differences in the liturgy acceptable in Europe? Or is everything suppose to be uniform regardless of where you are?

Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut. Sincerely, Mamat

 

[TheHopeless]

The thing about Agnus Dei sounds kind of strange, I have never heard it in the version you mention (and I think that part should be the same world wide…) and in my church (I am in Holland too by the way) we do say “For the kingdom…”, but I have experiensed churches (in other europian contries) where this was not used.

 

[Joan_M]

Is the liturgy suppose to be the same every where or is it permissible to change things a bit in other countries?

No one has permission to change things - whether a bit or a lot. The Liturgy is supposed to be exactly laid down by the Vatican.

Example, changing the words of the Agnus Dei to “King of Kings/Prince of Peace” or leaving off the part immediately following the Lord’s Prayer? The priest here in Holland never says the …"Deliver us, Lord,… " part and we never say…“For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever.”

This is not allowed.

This is a very culturally mixed community with Catholic’s from all over the world worshipping here. It is a wonderful service and the priest gives meaning to each part of the Mass unlike I have ever seen before. He communicates with the people making the theme of the Mass relevant in small ways. He incorporates the liturgical calender into the service giving meaning to the many parts of the church year. He includes the feast of saints and celebrates the work of church members with special recognition given to alter servers, ushers, Eucharistic ministers, teachers.

There should not be any special recognition given to altar servers, etc., except, maybe, once a year. This leads to pride.

I think that this Mass is what Vatican II had in mind when it made all those changes but there are a few irregular things, like once this year a lay person did the homily and they never kneel here. They stand through the consecration.

Are such differences in the liturgy acceptable in Europe? Or is everything suppose to be uniform regardless of where you are?

While there are some differences, these must be submitted by the specific Conference of Bishops that wants the changes and approved by the Holy See. Otherwise, everything should be the same.

Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut. Sincerely, Mamat

**Unfortunately, Holland is one of the most “liberal” countries and many things are done that are absolutely wrong. **

 

[Brendan]

**Unfortunately, Holland is one of the most “liberal” countries and many things are done that are absolutely wrong. **

I also know of a very good parish in Amsterdam that does the NO Mass in Latin.

I went there when I was on an extended layover at Schipol.

Very nice, very reverent.

I specifically sought out the Latin Mass because I could follow along and respond better in Latin than in Dutch

 

[peary]

Is the liturgy suppose to be the same every where or is it permissible to change things a bit in other countries? Example, changing the words of the Agnus Dei to “King of Kings/Prince of Peace” or leaving off the part immediately following the Lord’s Prayer? The priest here in Holland never says the …"Deliver us, Lord,… " part and we never say…“For the kingdom, the power, and the glory are yours, now and forever.”

This is a very culturally mixed community with Catholic’s from all over the world worshipping here. It is a wonderful service and the priest gives meaning to each part of the Mass unlike I have ever seen before. He communicates with the people making the theme of the Mass relevant in small ways. He incorporates the liturgical calender into the service giving meaning to the many parts of the church year. He includes the feast of saints and celebrates the work of church members with special recognition given to alter servers, ushers, Eucharistic ministers, teachers.

I think that this Mass is what Vatican II had in mind when it made all those changes but there are a few irregular things, like once this year a lay person did the homily and they never kneel here. They stand through the consecration.

Are such differences in the liturgy acceptable in Europe? Or is everything suppose to be uniform regardless of where you are?

Thanks for any (name removed by moderator)ut. Sincerely, Mamat

Count your blessings regardless!

 

[Mamat]

The thing about Agnus Dei sounds kind of strange, I have never heard it in the version you mention (and I think that part should be the same world wide…) and in my church (I am in Holland too by the way) we do say “For the kingdom…”, but I have experiensed churches (in other europian contries) where this was not used.

I think changes in the wording of “Lamb of God” to “King of Kings” or “Prince of Peace” and the people answering with “Have mercy on us” and then finally with “Grant us peace” is typical in many areas. As a matter of fact it seems that I have heard that done is every parish I have attended in the last few years both in Texas and Mississippi. I just thought that it was ok.

I made a little mass book for my grand daughter and put the invocation in without any changes. My Daughter thought I had made a mistake because it isn’t sung that way at Mass. Unfortunately, I believe the average Catholic probably doesn’t know such things aren’t acceptable and that is sad. Like the holding of hands during the Lords Prayer. That’s another thing that is extremely common everyplace I’ve been. It just done and accepted and as a result becoming the standard.

Why aren’t the priest sticking to the rules and teaching the people what is right?

MamaT