Liturgy of Hours Assistance

[OraLabora]

So even if I compromised and said it’s MORE traditional than the current version

It’s neither more, nor less “traditional”. What it is is pre-conciliar. That much is clear. As I mentioned, there are elements in the Liturgy of the Hours drawn from deep tradition. There are also innovations. The same can be said about the 1910 Office. It’s a futile exercise to say one is better than the other. I use either the current LOTH, or the monastic schema of my abbey. I use Gregorian chant for the Divine Office, which many call “traditional”, but even Gregorian chant as we know it today is from the late 19th century. It underwent a long decline from the Carolingian era until then, and was renewed in the 19th Century by the monks of Solesmes.

It is a field of study that is still ongoing today with new interpretations of ancient manuscripts. Having no 10th century recordings, what we sing today as “Gregorian chant” is what the monks of Solesmes imagined Gregorian chant to be.

 

[TheMortenBay]

This is a much more nuanced discussion of tradition than I’m used to. I love IT.
I’d say that whereas the Mass of Paul VI represents a clear break with Tradition from where I’m looking, the Liturgy of the Hours (though also simplified compared to before the council) has much more continuity with the 1960 office.

 

[OraLabora]

I think, for the Mass as well, that a lot depends on the options chosen, and the manner of celebration. I can for instance, make Lauds of the current LOTH take 10 minutes recited quietly to myself in the back of a bus, to 30 minutes fully chanted in Latin, using incense, with candles, silent pauses, etc. This morning I sang Lauds with our schola at the Cathedral, with Latin hymn and antiphons, French psalmody on Gregorian modes, all-Latin Gospel Canticle. It took 30 minutes.

In addition to the rubrics of the LOTH, the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, in its periodical “Notitiae”, vol. 89, gave instructions on how to adapt it to religious communities by making it longer: spreading the Office of Readings over 2 weeks and using it as Vigils divided into two nocturnes (3 on Sundays and feasts), and adding two other minor hours, to say 3 per day. The beauty, for me anyway, of the LOTH, is its great flexibility to be adapted to use by everyone, whether religious, diocesan clergy, or laity. It can be as long and ornate as one wants, or as short and simple as one needs, such as when traveling.

The same goes for the Mass. Where I attend Mass, at a Benedictine abbey, the propers and ordinary are sung in Gregorian chant, in Latin (with the usual splash of Greek), every day. The Gradual is sung instead of the Responsory Psalm. The rest, the prayers, responses, EP, are said in French plainchant. All 4 eucharist prayers are used; I (Roman Canon) mostly on solemnities but also they rotate through it on Sundays, II most often on weekdays, III on most Sundays, and IV (my favourite) often in Ordinary Time.

So again it’s a matter of how much effort one puts into it. Our abbey is of the Solesmes Congregation, so it’s in their culture to put huge effort into it, and do it right. Good Friday’s liturgy takes nearly 2 hours…

 

[TheMortenBay]

You are of course right. When I visited Westminster Cathedral in London their ordinary form Mass was wonderful. All the bells and whistles if you like. I think it’s more the priests of the churches I frequent most often who have certain simplistic ideas (or limitations) of what the ordinary form of the Mass is supposed to look like. That’s something I’ve never seen at a Latin Mass.

 

[ioannes_pius]

I might add that diviniumofficium.com is very user-friendly.

 

[TomH1]

What the correct version of LOH that I should procure ?

I would say it depends on (i) where you live and (ii) if you are obliged to say the Office in part or whole.

If you are not obliged to the Office you could use any version approved by the Church and it would most likely count as a personal devotion. If you want to be praying the official liturgy of the Church you would have to use a version authorised for where you live. I live in the UK and one of my options to pray the Office as the official liturgy of the Church would be the [three volume] Divine Office published by the Catholic Bishops Conference of England and Wales and the ‘official form’ of the Liturgy of the Hours (Divine Office) here.

The full sets of the Office books can be quite expensive but I do not think we will see a revised Office for a long time. What I would say is try and shop around. Buying the Divine Office in the UK direct from its official publisher is, if memory serves me well, £180 (£60 per volume) I bought the entire set for £80 from Amazon because I got two of the volumes for £25 and one for £30. I cannot promise you you will be able to get the USA’s 4-volume LOTH at a saving but it would do no harm to look around.

If you are not obliged to the Office you do not need the full 4-volume LOTH. Both here in the UK and in the USA there are other versions published which contain less of the Office. You could go for one of these unless you are intent on praying the whole Office. There are also various apps and websites where you can access the texts of the Office.

 

[Usige]

Someday. But I wouldn’t hold off buying the books if you want to get started.

Totally agree on not holding off. I would be surprised if there is a new English revision completed in the next decade.

 

[OraLabora]

Totally agree on not holding off. I would be surprised if there is a new revision completed in the next decade.

In 1970, when the LOTH was first promulgated by Paul VI, we were promised a new antiphonary to chant the Hours in Gregorian chant “soon”.

We finally got the first volume that allowed the chanting of a full office in Gregorian, in 2010…

“Soon”, in the Vatican time zone… turns out to have been 40 years! And so far that only covers Vespers of Sundays, feasts and solemnities.

Fortunately the community of Saint Martin in France, couldn’t wait and in 2008 they produced the excellent diurnal antiphonary Les Heures Grégoriennes. It is isn’t “official”, but it is licit to use, signed by Card. Arinze, with imprimatur, nihil obstat and concordat cum originali. It is what I use when praying the LOTH instead of the Monastic breviary.

 

[edward_george1]

iBreviary. The texts are identical to what’s in the book. Why would it matter if it was in print or on an app? It’s the same thing.

 

[TheMortenBay]

Every once in a while I hear of a mistake in the coding on either iBreviary or DivinumOfficium.com, and being the kind of person that I am, I’d rather err on my own side of the screen than have it be up to someone else’s technical know-how. That’s why I prefer the books. I would especially so if I prayed the LotH under the pain of mortal sin.

 

[angel12]

Every once in a while I hear of a mistake in the coding on either iBreviary or DivinumOfficium.com, and being the kind of person that I am, I’d rather err on my own side of the screen than have it be up to someone else’s technical know-how. That’s why I prefer the books. I would especially so if I prayed the LotH under the pain of mortal sin.

Having a misprint in something – book or otherwise – that you pray with is hardly mortal sin.

 

[edward_george1]

There are typos in the book at times. The obligation is not to pray an office with no flaws in it, as though the office is some kind of magical formula that must be done perfectly. The obligation is simply to pray the office. Even if I prayed a different one than what was specified for the day, whether mistakenly or because I was in a different jurisdiction with a different calendar, I still fulfill the obligation by praying the office.

In short, if I don’t sin by praying the wrong prayers unwittingly, I can’t possibly sin by praying a version with errors, digital or otherwise. We can’t sin on accident. We meet the obligation by praying the office, full stop.

-Fr ACEGC

 

[TheMortenBay]

We can’t sin on accident

Of course not. I just mean I like to be in control. I like to know what part of the office comes from which text etc rather than letting a computer decide. I use both iBreviary and Divinum Officium on occasion, though.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

A new translation of the LOTH’s is a longtime coming and in fact, a newer translation of the English Mass may come first as the current translation isn’t being well received, as they first thought.

If you feel called to being praying the LOTH’s, don’t hold back waiting for a new translation.

Get the single volume Christian Prayer and begin there.

Jim

 

[Usige]

“Soon”, in the Vatican time zone… turns out to have been 40 years! And so far that only covers Vespers of Sundays, feasts and solemnities.

Reminds me of one of my professor that said something like “the problem with an institution focused on eternity is it thinks it has an eternity to act; anything less is breakneck speed”.

 

[phil19034]

in fact, a newer translation of the English Mass may come first as the current translation isn’t being well received, as they first thought.

It’s doubtful that a new English Mass translation will come anytime soon for the United States.

Most of the younger people (lay and clergy) like the new translation. It’s mostly the Baby Boomers who are complaining.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Actually, it’s the Bishops who are complaining about the new English translation of the Mass. It digressed from being spiritually connecting to a slavish translation of literal Latin to English, which included the cultural context when Latin cultures still existed.

Jim

 

[phil19034]

Actually, it’s the Bishops who are complaining about the new English translation of the Mass. It digressed from being spiritually connecting to a slavish translation of literal Latin to English, which included the cultural context when Latin cultures still existed.

Jim

Most of the bishops are baby boomers

Honestly, I hope they don’t change it. I really like it how it is and think it’s a lot better than the previous one.

 

[AlbMagno]

Doesn’t it have a problem with the “And with your spirit” part?

Also, saying the bishops are baby boomers is an ad hominem argument.

 

[phil19034]

Doesn’t it have a problem with the “And with your spirit” part?

Also, saying the bishops are baby boomers is an ad hominem argument.

Huh? I’m not understanding your point. I love “and with you spirit.” It just like the Latin

And I don’t understand your point regarding an ad hominem argument. I had said first that it was mostly Baby Boomers who dislike the new translation. The response I received was that bishops didn’t like it. So I then responded that most bishops are baby boomers. So I was not really making an ad hominem.