Liturgy of the Hours and Divine Office: what is the difference?

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Aramis said:
In byzantine use, when lead by a layman, all the litanies in the Byzantine hours are elided to choral repetitions of “Lord Have Mercy” and several prayers switch to alternate texts. In some of the Eastern Churches (specifically those of the Kyivan tradition), Deacon-lead forms have the litanies, but still use alternate forms for several prayers.

Further, the Eastern Churches often replace the hours with repetitions of the Jesus prayer when alone; many restrict even the layman from saying the hours without others.
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Thanks for the info. I was wondering about this because I have a friend who is Byzantine Catholic and she said she doesn’t pray the Divine Office anymore since becoming Byzantine Catholic.
 
ByzCath said:
The Liturgy of the Hours/Divine Office, as has been said earlier, is the Prayer of the Church. This goes along with the Mass.

Now I have a question. Why does it seem that people are quick to suggest versions of the Office that are not the official approved versions? .
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I have no idea. As I said in the beginning, I have a 3 volume Divine Office Set that I was using that a very traditional Catholic friend gave me. The wording is beautiful. I have since started formation classes for OCDS and for my prayer with fellow OCDS members I needed to get either the Christian Prayer book or the 4 volume Liturgy of the Hours.

I didn’t even realize there were so many versions out there. It is all very confusing to me. The formation Director did tell me I should use the Christian Prayer with the OCDS group and that I could use the 3 volume Divine Office prayer for my daily recitition alone.
 
ByzCath said:
The Liturgy of the Hours/Divine Office, as has been said earlier, is the Prayer of the Church. This goes along with the Mass.

Now I have a question. Why does it seem that people are quick to suggest versions of the Office that are not the official approved versions? When one uses something than the official approved versions from their region they are not truly practicing the Liturgy of the Hours/Divine Office, they are rather performing a private devotion.
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The problem I have with your objections is that laymen have no obligation to pray the divine office. Having, no obligation, they can pray the breviary or liturgy of the hours as they wish in whatever language they wish.

Then you come and start griping that that’s just a private devotion as if a private devotion is a bad thing and when the fact of the matter is that people who are obligated to pray the office can get a dispensation to use the vernacular language whereas people who aren’t obligated to pray the office can’t – because they don’t have an obligation in the first place.

So you end up with the ridiculous situation that someone like you can start moaning at laymen that if they pray the traditional office in English they’s not really praying the divine office, whereas a priest could be praying the exact same text from the same book with a dispensation and everything’s great.

So I suggest that you stop worrying about what language non-obligated laymen use when praying the breviary.
 
Will_S said:
Yes, but it is 100% Latin (including the instructions), so it’s helpful to have a good knowledge of Latin before using it.

Of course, there is the possibility of a bilingual Breviarum Romanum, such as the forthcoming Baronius Press edition.
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The English is not approved in that. It’s for educational purposes only.
 
There is nothing wrong in someone praying the older breviary as a private devotion. It’s very beautiful and inspiring. How can we criticize someone who is called to more prayer in their lives?
 
Will_S said:
The problem I have with your objections is that laymen have no obligation to pray the divine office. Having, no obligation, they can pray the breviary or liturgy of the hours as they wish in whatever language they wish.

Then you come and start griping that that’s just a private devotion as if a private devotion is a bad thing and when the fact of the matter is that people who are obligated to pray the office can get a dispensation to use the vernacular language whereas people who aren’t obligated to pray the office can’t – because they don’t have an obligation in the first place.

So you end up with the ridiculous situation that someone like you can start moaning at laymen that if they pray the traditional office in English they’s not really praying the divine office, whereas a priest could be praying the exact same text from the same book with a dispensation and everything’s great.

So I suggest that you stop worrying about what language non-obligated laymen use when praying the breviary.
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Yes, there is no obligation for a lay person (that is unless there is one as many secular orders and lay institutes put on obligation on them) and it can be prayed as a private devotion.

What I am talking about is using the proper terms as the Church uses them. A lay person needs to be aware that they are not praying the Liturgy of the Hours when they use texts other than the approved ones. They should not go about thinking or saying that they are participating in the Liturgy of the Hours as they are not. They are praying the hours as a private devotion using unapproved texts.
Will_S said:
:rolleyes: The Baronius Press Breviary is being printed for prayer, not study.

Post #43 applies to you also.
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While it is being printed for prayer it is not the Liturgy of the Hours when one prays the English as the English is not approved to use.

One of the great pulls of praying the Liturgy of the Hours is knowing that you are joining in the Prayer of the Church, that millions of people are praying the same prayer as you are. When you use unapproved texts you are not joining in that prayer.

You can roll your eyes all you wish. You can complain about us stating this fact all you wish but that does not change the fact of the matter.

Get over it.
 
While it is being printed for prayer it is not the Liturgy of the Hours when one prays the English as the English is not approved to use.
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David,

I am a third order Carmelite (OCDS), and we were instructed many years ago in the use of the breviary - in English. How can it be that this is not approved as official prayer of the Church? Where did you come to misunderstand that? In fact, if you log on to DivineOffice.org, it IS in English.

The Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Chapter IV, Sect. V, does say that for celeberation of the Divine Office in CHOIR by clerics, they should retain the latin. However, the use of the vernacular for liturgical use outside of choir was also approved, providing the text received recognito from the Holy See.

I would also add that this is an obligation of our rule, to join in the Prayer of the Church, the LOTH. How could the Order instruct us and obligate us in a version that is unapproved? I disagree that this is merely a private devotion. Each time we gather in community, we all use the same breviary to recite prayer in common.

In fact, I compared the words used in DivineOffice.org with my breviary, and they are identical.
 
Sirach2 said:
David,

I am a third order Carmelite (OCDS), and we were instructed many years ago in the use of the breviary - in English. How can it be that this is not approved as official prayer of the Church? Where did you come to misunderstand that? In fact, if you log on to DivineOffice.org, it IS in English.

The Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Chapter IV, Sect. V, does say that for celeberation of the Divine Office in CHOIR by clerics, they should retain the latin. However, the use of the vernacular for liturgical use outside of choir was also approved, providing the text received recognito from the Holy See.

I would also add that this is an obligation of our rule, to join in the Prayer of the Church, the LOTH. How could the Order instruct us and obligate us in a version that is unapproved? I disagree that this is merely a private devotion. Each time we gather in community, we all use the same breviary to recite prayer in common.

In fact, I compared the words used in DivineOffice.org with my breviary, and they are identical.
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The current Breviary has an approved English translation. The old Latin Breviary does not have an approved English translation. The old Breviary is prayed in Latin.

This is my last reply on this subject. It appears that there is a grave misunderstanding out there on this issue and it is is accompanied by a lack of interest in knowing the right of the issue.
 
The current Breviary has an approved English translation.
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Ok, perhaps I misunderstood you, for I have not followed the entire thread. I thought you were saying the only way one could be in communion with the rest of the Church in reciting the public liturgy of the hours is to pray it in latin. Thanks for clarifying your meaning.
 
Will_S said:
The problem I have with your objections is that laymen have no obligation to pray the divine office. Having, no obligation, they can pray the breviary or liturgy of the hours as they wish in whatever language they wish.
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There is nothing wrong with a private devotion. It just isn’t the Liturgy of the Hours.

Here’s a definition of “liturgy” that I turned up:
iturgy - a rite or body of rites prescribed for public worship
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If one doesn’t follow the prescribed rite, then it is not liturgy.

There also seems to be some confusion about language.

The only approved version of any pre-Vatican II version of the Divine Office in the Roman Church is the Latin.

For any of the current versions of the Liturgy of the Hours (Roman and Benedictine), an approved vernacular version may be used. The only two that I know of are the AELF version for French and the ICEL version for English. Other languages have their versions as well. These are approved, and thus are liturgy.
Will_S said:
:rolleyes: The Baronius Press Breviary is being printed for prayer, not study.

Post #43 applies to you also.
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What he’s saying is that the English translation isn’t approved for liturgical prayer. The Latin is to be prayed. The English is only provided beside the Latin to help understand it.
 
Sirach2 said:
David,

I am a third order Carmelite (OCDS), and we were instructed many years ago in the use of the breviary - in English. How can it be that this is not approved as official prayer of the Church? Where did you come to misunderstand that? In fact, if you log on to DivineOffice.org, it IS in English.

The Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, Chapter IV, Sect. V, does say that for celeberation of the Divine Office in CHOIR by clerics, they should retain the latin. However, the use of the vernacular for liturgical use outside of choir was also approved, providing the text received recognito from the Holy See.

I would also add that this is an obligation of our rule, to join in the Prayer of the Church, the LOTH. How could the Order instruct us and obligate us in a version that is unapproved? I disagree that this is merely a private devotion. Each time we gather in community, we all use the same breviary to recite prayer in common.

In fact, I compared the words used in DivineOffice.org with my breviary, and they are identical.
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Your order may have specific permissions. (I don’t know specifically for the OCDS… I’m not one, and don’t know any personally…) Anything approved for your order is approved for you if your order does so. I know that some houses of the Dominicans and several groups of Franciscans had permissions for the hours in the vernacular before the English was in general approval.

Byzantine Catholics of the Ruthenian Church have had permission since 1955 to use the hours in English. Romans since 1970.

For the Roman, only the new form is approved in general for English, for the paraliturgical use in parishes and by the clergy.

The Baronus Press edition in question is the older form of the Roman Hours; it’s from an edition where the promulgation was for use in Latin alone.
 
ByzCath said:
One of the great pulls of praying the Liturgy of the Hours is knowing that you are joining in the Prayer of the Church, that millions of people are praying the same prayer as you are. When you use unapproved texts you are not joining in that prayer.

You can roll your eyes all you wish. You can complain about us stating this fact all you wish but that does not change the fact of the matter.

Get over it.
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And you can complain all you wish about people using the older version as a private devotion – that doesn’t change the fact that it is still prayer, and there is no reason for them not to do so if they wish.
And I say that as someone who DOES pray the LOTH, as required by my Order.
 
Alright, alright. No need for petty back and forth. We’re here to learn, not shoot spitballs.
 
agnes_therese said:
And you can complain all you wish about people using the older version as a private devotion – that doesn’t change the fact that it is still prayer, and there is no reason for them not to do so if they wish.
And I say that as someone who DOES pray the LOTH, as required by my Order.
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You are mistaken. No where have I complained about people using unapproved or older versions as a private devotion.

People really need to start reading all of the posts before commenting.
 
ByzCath said:
You are mistaken. No where have I complained about people using unapproved or older versions as a private devotion.
People really need to start reading all of the posts before commenting.
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I have read the posts. Your tone toward those who wish to pray the older version comes across as quite dismissive. Perhaps you did not mean it that way.
 
If you’re asking are you praying the LoTH with the Church? The answer is yes. This website is contains the English text from the current approved texts for the US from what I understand.

You can use anything you want for a Private Devotion
 
I posted this in another thread, from what I understand the approved English versions of the LoTH for the US are

Shorter Christian Prayer
Christian Prayer
The 4 Vol Liturgy of the Hours

published by Catholic Book Publishing Company, there maybe another publisher I’m not sure.

I say this as somebody that keeps switching back and for the between Christan Prayer and the Monastic Diurnal (MD).

I prefer the MD but attend an OF parish, so bouncing back and forth between calendars gets to be frustrating at times so I gravitate back to Christian Prayer. I’m hopeful that with the new Roman Missal, revised Grail Psalms and English chants in the New Roman Missal a nice shiny new version of the LoTH will be published soon. 🙂

And, technicalities aside, it’s encouraging to see everyone on this thread looking for a way to integrate a prayer routine in their life. :bounce:
 
agnes_therese said:
I have read the posts. Your tone toward those who wish to pray the older version comes across as quite dismissive. Perhaps you did not mean it that way.
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Again, you are wrong.

I have not been dismissive.

I just want those who chose to pray an unapproved version to be aware that they are not participating in the Liturgy of the Hours but are practicing a private devotion, if you find that dismissive then that seems to be your issue and I refuse to own that.

The older version, which would be the old Breviary in Latin, is not a private devotion and I have not called it one. It is an approved version of the Liturgy of the Hours and in post have I said that it is not such.

Maybe you have read all the posts but you have gravely misunderstood them if you did.
 
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