Liturgy of the Hours for Laymen Before Vatican 2?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Maximilian75
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Edward_H said:
The focus on the “liturgy of the hours” for the lay is another indication of a sort of “clericalizing” of the lay that has been going on for too many years.

The flood of deacons, EMHC’s, “hospitality ministers”, etc. etc. are other signs of this.

Take even the dissenting news magazine called the National Catholic Reporter…as vehemently anti-institutional Church as it is…nearly all of its angry articles center of clericial matters.

They are every bit as clerical at NCR as a group of Latin Mass only parents hoping all their children become priests or sisters.
Click to expand...
I fail to understand what praying the Liturgy of the Hours has to do with clericalizing.

Many Saints prayed the hours at home, as children long before then entered the religious life.

One of the reasons the Rosary was created was because many lay people wanted to pray the Hours but didn’t have prayer books to so. So the Rosary and other chaplets were created to grant Lay people who lacked the resources to purchase the Liturgy of the Hours a way to engage in similar prayer.
 
R_H_Benson said:
In Mediator Dei (1947), Pope Pius XII describe those who are to pray the Divine Office as such:

“The divine office is the prayer of the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, offered to God in the name and on behalf of all Christians, when recited by priests and other ministers of the Church and by religious who are deputed by the Church for this”

The Second Vatican Council disregarded the magisterium of Pius XII on this point, as well as on many other liturgical points in favor of novelty.
Click to expand...
No. What Mediator Dei is saying here is that when clergy and religious pray the Divine office, they are doing it in the name of all Christians.

When Lay People pray the Divine office, we are praying on behalf of ourselves or prayer group. Lay people pray it as a devotional (similar to other devotions), we are not praying it in the same way as the clergy and religious.

The clergy and religious have an OBLIGATION to pray the Hours every day. Lay people don’t.

God bless.
 
i am an altar boy, a ministry that probably far outdates your concept of ‘clericalization’… I wear robes and do lay work around the parish… is altar serving some grave liturgical abuse?
 
As I said, it’s part of a larger “let’s pretend we’re priests” problem. tks.
 
then how are lectors and extraordinary ministers of holy communion?
 
hospitality ministers, respect life ministers, music ministers, senior citizens ministers…all at my Church…I could go on for 15 lines.
 
and? are those functions unimportant? not on the same level as the Mass, but still vital…
 
It’s part and parcel of “do what priests do…”

The life of the lay need not model after the clerics.

I have friends…these are the “so humble in my pride of the Latin Mass” people…who think they’re not doing enough for the church unless all their children have been brain washed into thinking they need to become a priest or a sister…they get one or two to get closer…meanwhile the rest of them are rebelling!

Failure to lead the lay life naturally and well.
 
Last edited:
Ministers? Come on.

we need to be humble enough that we do jobs that may not be that important!!

Think about it. Must everything be important?

Have we bought into the “everyone gets a trophy” disease.
 
Last edited:
why does the title matter? They are doing vital work for their church
 
Maybe that work is not that vital. So what?

We need the lay to be eager and happy to do work that no one recognizes and gives titles and awards to.

It’s like Catholics forgot the purpose and value of humility.

You can’t have humility withOUT sincere humiliation.

Everybody wants to be seen as “vital”.

It’s really a sad state. Fragile people.
 
Last edited:
Maybe if more people realized the truth…that not all the things we do need to be or are in fact"vital"…they’d actually have a higher understanding of the role of the priest and the Eucharist.

Ever think about that?
 
Last edited:
this is not all or nothing, like you make it seem to be…
“God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them.” Hebrews 6:10
 
Mark 9. “Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all.”

And I would add happily so, quietly so, eagerly so.
 
Edward_H said:
The focus on the “liturgy of the hours” for the lay is another indication of a sort of “clericalizing” of the lay that has been going on for too many years.
Click to expand...
That’s one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard here. The whole point is that the Liturgy of the Hours (notice that no quotation marks are needed) is NOT solely a clerical function.
You don’t want to pray it, don’t. Sounds like you wouldn’t appreciate it, anyway.
 
Edward_H said:
I am pointing out that many lay…don’t know how other they should pray…so they do what priests are required to do.
Click to expand...
And your source for this is . . .? Most people who are drawn to the LoH are drawn to it AFTER already developing their own prayer life. That’s the only way you can appreciate, and really pray, the Hours, as opposed to just reading them.
I know quite a few laypersons who, like myself, pray the Liturgy of the Hours. Not a single one does it because they “don’t know how other they should pray.”
 
I was asked by my pastor, a parish of more than 4K families to lead a men’s formation effort. And I heard it again and again and again. The pastor too was stumped: “don’t they know what the lay vocation is?” We had our work cut out for us. Took 3 years to make the slightest dent in this “clerical mindset”.

If you don’t understand the distinction you can’t grasp my point. But the Franciscan priest of more than 30 years got it; helped me get my mind around it.
 
Pius XII was not teaching doctrine. He was making a comment on the discipline of the Church, which ws that the priests and religious were top say the office.
The Second vatican Council did not disregard any Magisterial teaching. It did not change the dicsipline of priests and religious; it encouraged the laity to join in the other official liturgy of the Church.

Nice try. Complete miss of the target.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top