Liturgy of the Hours for Laymen Before Vatican 2?

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Code of Canon law:

“Associations whose members share in the spirit of some religious institute while in secular life, lead an apostolic life, and strive for Christian perfection under the higher direction of the same institute are called third orders or some other appropriate name.”

My point stands.
 
You implied third orders were some recent novel thing connected to Vatican II.

It’s been established they in fact began between the 8th and 13th century.

I find the fact somebody who shows up such vast levels of ignorance on such a wide array of topics was ever teaching RCIA both incredible and disturbing.
 
I served in Fallujah…nov 2004 in the Marine Corps infantry…I’ve been in far more heat than you.
 
My dads a jarhead… I agree with him when he says a chimp is smart enough to serve in the Marines.

I’m a USAF Veteran.

Being a USMC veteran does nothing for your argument here.
 
Calling your dad a jarhead says more about you than it does anything else. Tipped your hand. Will save my time.

I have 3 now grown sons and they’d never refer to me as a jarhead.
 
For a jarhead you’re pretty thin skinned.

I call my dad a meathead jarhead and he calls me a porky armchair pilot. No harm no foul.
 
Edward_H said:
But there’s an entirely other way to pursue one’s lay vocation…totally unaffiliated with “orderings”.
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Well, duh, of course there is. That’s why most, if not all, third orders have a lengthy discernment process, to allow both the applicant and the community to discern whether the person really has a calling to the particular order and it’s spirituality. Far from having third orders “pushed” on them, new Catholics are often discouraged from applying until they’ve had more time and experience in the Church.
Not that you seem to have any interest in actual facts. Just posting this for any others who are unfamiliar with third orders, but haven’t made up their minds without any info.
 
Edward_H said:
And it’s well known that lay 3rd orders DO PROVIDE a source of funding for their orders. That’s often part of the “3rd order” commitments.
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Actually, my particular third order commits to living the spirit of the evangelical counsels and the Beatitudes. Not a word about forking over the $$$.
 
New Catholics should shy away from the over-devout…who seem too happy to peddle their approach on them and then shame them in their own way for not buying this book, reading that book, enrolling in this scapular, or seeking membership in that 3rd order thing.

These things are fine for some…but not necessary.

Their first priority should be to build an interior life of prayer and a great love for the Sacraments.
 
angel12 said:
Actually, my particular third order commits to living the spirit of the evangelical counsels and the Beatitudes. Not a word about forking over the $$$.
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Same with we Benedictine oblates. We promised three things at our oblation: stability, obedience, and conversion. Not a peep about $. Our abbey has another group called the “friends” of the abbey. Unlike oblates they are not considered a part of the community and have no formal discernment process, they merely have to pay their dues.

The joke is that when the monastery needs money, they ask the “friends”, and when they need prayers, they ask the oblates 🙂
 
Edward_H said:
New Catholics should shy away from the over-devout…who seem too happy to peddle their approach on them and then shame them in their own way for not buying this book, reading that book, enrolling in this scapular, or seeking membership in that 3rd order thing.
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This has been exactly the opposite of my experience with new converts. They rather often exhibit the zeal of the newly converted. I was the same after I reverted after being out of the Church for a long time. Twenty years on since my reversion, I’ve mellowed out. But it is the newly converted who have often (especially on here) lectured me about the alleged weakness of my faith, accusing me of being a “modernist”, “liberal” and other fine epithets, and who tend to be the legalists. But that’s a normal process of discovering faith. Hell hath no fury, nor zeal, like a ex-smoker who just quit.

I do get where you’re coming from. I don’t pray the Rosary and have often been made to feel that somehow I’m less of a Catholic because I don’t. It’s just not a prayer that works for me. The Liturgy of the Hours does. So I too can get resentful at some Rosary fans, and because of that experience I would never tell someone that they’re somehow less of a Catholic because they don’t pray the LOTH.

On the other hand, if someone on this board asks how to improve their prayer life, I most certainly will witness in favour of the LOTH. I have obtained many graces by praying it, and nobody will stop me from promoting it. If some grow into it based on the witness of myself and others, then great. If they say “it just doesn’t work for me”, then that’s fine too. What is important is to have a regular prayer life.
 
I’ve watched them come with “zeal” just as you say…receiving diverging advice and bailing.

so maybe the truth is in the middle…

If our formal prayer time doesn’t bleed over to the ordinary parts of the day…it’s failing us.

A great priest I know…82 years old, smiling, working all the time…said “our prayer should turn into chatter throughout the day.”
 
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Edward_H said:
I have every right to draw from my many years as a Catholic making conclusions as I see fit.

I taught RCIA for years. I give parish and diocesan formation to children, teens, and adults.

I’ve heard (face to face, not in this silly and irksome forum) too many soon to be Catholics and new Catholics describe some of the over-the-top, ill-considered advice they get from the over-devout (you need to say the rosary daily, you need to get the LOTH and pray it…etc.).

No…be reasonable…befriend these people…take them out for a burger and beer…listen to them,…gauge their level of maturity and readiness…be ready for “little” ideas, reassure them of their freedom, remind them of the 6 ACTUAL precepts of the Catholic Church, don’t overwhelm them…or make them feel they have to do all this other stuff…as good as it might be.

You don’t have a right to prevent my observations or to contort them into some sort of Freudian soup.
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I’m sorry, but grouping everyone in this thread with people at your parish (or people your RCIA students know) is not fair.

No properly Catechized Catholic will tell anyone you MUST pray the Rosary or that you MUST pray the LOTH.

However, any loving Catholic WILL SUGGEST devotions that help them.

For example, I know some people (priests included) who pray to St Anthony of Padua every time they loose their keys. They always tell people to “pray to St Anthony when you can’t find your keys.” But when I loose my keys, I don’t ask St Anthony. I simply look for them myself. And I sure don’t bit off the heads of people who tell me to pray to St Anthony.

Anyone who is suggesting the Rosay or LOTH is doing so out of a place of love, not malice or “over the top piety.”

Good RCIA instructor should be easily able to address such misunderstandings, and frankly, that should be a softball for you.
 
There are too many people on this forum who have gotten into an uncharitable habit of grotesquely distorting what someone has written in order to dismiss it.

I said I have a right to draw conclusions from my experiences. I do so from my many and varied experiences with Catholics in person, and on line.

I see the same hypersensitivities here in this very forum as I have run across in person.

It’s like the “Latin Mass” crowd…many of whom have a sad pride in them about “their Mass”. Very sad.

The Latin Mass is fine…but it’s their evident pride and defensiveness (and constant interior complaint about others) that’s the problem.
 
Defending the legitimacy of the LOTH and Tertiaries has nothing to do with pride and everything to do with defending the Bride.
 
Go easy there AF, no one has threatened the “legitimacy” (lol) of the LOTH or tertiaries.

CAF seems unusually filled with posters who seem to have to grossly distort a point in order to dismiss it. I’ve never seen so many red herrings in the boat!
 
Edward_H said:
Go easy there AF, no one has threatened the “legitimacy” (lol) of the LOTH or tertiaries.

CAF seems unusually filled with posters who seem to have to grossly distort a point in order to dismiss it. I’ve never seen so many red herrings in the boat!
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Perhaps it’s your tone? This post here is very accusatory. From what I’ve read here in this thread, you seem to be unwilling to accept that either (a) your view is slightly distorted or (b) that due to your choice of words, people are missing your point.

You are the one who said praying the LOTH is a form of clericalism instead of saying something like “some people who suffer from clericalism pray the LOTH.”

Your statements would be like me saying everyone who holds their hands in the orans position during the Our Father suffers from clericalism because only the priest should be doing it. Such a statement would be a gross overstatement and result in lots of emotional reactions just like your overstatements regarding the LOTH, rosary, CAF, etc.

God Bless
 
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