Liturgy of the Hours / OOR Questions

[dank]

Hi -

Some LotH questions. I’m just a lay person trying to augment my personal prayer life this way.

Quick question about the Office of Readings. From time to time I try to read these (I have the one volume Christian Prayer), but according to the St. Joseph’s Guide that my book comes with, the same reading comes up way too often for me to be sure that I’m picking the readings the right way. Am I supposed to just read the two readings that begin on the pages indicated in the guide? Or am I doing something wrong? I fear its the latter since there are all kinds of readings there but I keep getting the same two.

Say I don’t get around to Evening Prayer around supper time, but will pray before bedtime. Is it better to read the Evening Prayer or Night Prayer in this situation? Or is it just up to me?

Say I sleep in and don’t do the Invitatory and Morning Prayer that day. Am I to tack on the Invitatory to my first LotH prayer of the day in any event, or do I then skip the Invitatory and just stick with the “O God Come to my Assistance” versicle?

I know for lay people there probably aren’t hard rules for this, but I wanted to seek some advice about the OOR thing first of all, and then what the best practise is for some of these situations I’ve found myself in.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

The one-volume Christian Prayer has only a few selections for the Office of Readings. (That’s how they fit it into one volume.) If you want to do Office of Readings every day (it happens to be my favorite hour to pray), you may want to consider eventually getting the four-volume Liturgy of the Hours set, which has a different set of readings for every day of the year. If you can’t afford it all at once, you can buy it one volume at a time (Advent/Christmas, Lent/Easter, and two volumes for Ordinary Time).

If I remember correctly from when I looked at someone else’s copy of Christian Prayer, the page references in the guide sometimes give the first page of a range of choices for a given day. You may want to alternate them until you are able to get the four-volume set.

You always pray the Invitatory before the first hour that you pray in a given day. For example, if you skip Morning and Daytime Prayers, you would pray the Invitatory before Evening Prayer.

Morning and Evening Prayer are the hinge or key hours of the day. If you can’t pray all the hours, those are most important. But really, as a lay person not under obligation, you are free to do as you choose. In the evening I would usually choose Evening Prayer, unless it is actually bedtime and I am getting sleepy, when Night Prayer with it’s “time to go to sleep and say good night to God” feel may appeal to me more.

Basically, do what feels right and follow the Holy Spirit’s lead. The whole purpose of Liturgy of the Hours is to help bring you into a love relationship with the Lord by praying the Psalms He inspired. Enjoy!

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Hi -

Some LotH questions. I’m just a lay person trying to augment my personal prayer life this way.

Quick question about the Office of Readings. From time to time I try to read these (I have the one volume Christian Prayer), but according to the St. Joseph’s Guide that my book comes with, the same reading comes up way too often for me to be sure that I’m picking the readings the right way. Am I supposed to just read the two readings that begin on the pages indicated in the guide? Or am I doing something wrong? I fear its the latter since there are all kinds of readings there but I keep getting the same two.

Say I don’t get around to Evening Prayer around supper time, but will pray before bedtime. Is it better to read the Evening Prayer or Night Prayer in this situation? Or is it just up to me?

Say I sleep in and don’t do the Invitatory and Morning Prayer that day. Am I to tack on the Invitatory to my first LotH prayer of the day in any event, or do I then skip the Invitatory and just stick with the “O God Come to my Assistance” versicle?

I know for lay people there probably aren’t hard rules for this, but I wanted to seek some advice about the OOR thing first of all, and then what the best practise is for some of these situations I’ve found myself in.

Universalis has the readings for OOR each day, though not the antiphons etc. It also has some useful guidelines for doing the readings.

If you miss an hour by a long time skip it and do the current hour.

The Invitatory should be said before whatever is the first hour you do for the day. I usually do OOR right after night prayer for the previous day so do the Invitiatory then. I think it can be done anytime after Evening Prayer for the previous day.

 

[drforjc]

Universalis has the readings for OOR each day, though not the antiphons etc. It also has some useful guidelines for doing the readings.

If you miss an hour by a long time skip it and do the current hour.

The Invitatory should be said before whatever is the first hour you do for the day. I usually do OOR right after night prayer for the previous day so do the Invitiatory then. I think it can be done anytime after Evening Prayer for the previous day.

Strangely enough, the General Instruction of the Liturgy of the Hours states:

1. The invitatory is placed at the beginning of the whole sequence of the day’s prayer, that is, it precedes either morning prayer or the office of readings, whichever of these liturgical rites begins the day. The invitatory psalm with its antiphon may be omitted, however, when the invitatory is the prelude to morning prayer.

emphasis mine…
I always say the Invitatory personally, but apparently it’s optional when it would directly precede morning prayer.

Or am I misinterpreting this?

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Strangely enough, the General Instruction of the Liturgy of the Hours states:

emphasis mine…
I always say the Invitatory personally, but apparently it’s optional when it would directly precede morning prayer.

Or am I misinterpreting this?

I don’t have the full instructions. I do find the instructions in general rather confusing. Re **

The invitatory psalm with its antiphon may be omitted, however, when the invitatory is the prelude to morning prayer.

**I wonder if that means one may skip it if the Invitiatory psalm is the same psalm as the first psalm or Morning Prayer.

Universalis offers
****QUOTE] The Invitatory PsalmThe Invitatory Psalm acts as a kind of introduction to the entire Divine Office for the day. When you say it therefore depends on which hour you recite first. If you start with Lauds, say it at the beginning of Lauds; if you start with the Office of Readings (which, you will recall, can be recited at any time of the day), then say the invitatory psalm at the beginning of the Office of Readings. If all that you recite in the day is Vespers, then say the invitatory psalm at the beginning of Vespers. This site lets you view versions of Lauds and the Office of Readings both with and without the invitatory psalm.

 

[hilde_the_dog]

Joe

I get confused also I just do my best. And what does “Conclusion, as in the Ordinary” mean?

 

[PhilotheaZ]

And what does “Conclusion, as in the Ordinary” mean?

There is a section of Liturgy of the Hours called the “Ordinary” that has prayers common to all (or most) days. Each hour has its own conclusion. The conclusions (for individual prayer) are as follows (if a priest or deacon is present he will give a blessing):

Office of Readings and Daytime Prayer: “Let us praise the Lord and give Him thanks.”
Morning and Evening Prayer: “May the Lord bless us, protect us from all evil, and bring us to everlasting life. Amen.”
Night Prayer: “May the all-powerful Lord grant us a restful night and a peaceful death. Amen.”

I have sometimes wondered why they don’t simply print these in each hour rather than “Conclusion, as in the Ordinary.” It wouldn’t take much more ink or paper!

 

[ricmat]

The one-volume Christian Prayer has only a few selections for the Office of Readings. (That’s how they fit it into one volume.) If you want to do Office of Readings every day (it happens to be my favorite hour to pray), you may want to consider eventually getting the four-volume Liturgy of the Hours set, which has a different set of readings for every day of the year. If you can’t afford it all at once, you can buy it one volume at a time (Advent/Christmas, Lent/Easter, and two volumes for Ordinary Time).

If I remember correctly from when I looked at someone else’s copy of Christian Prayer, the page references in the guide sometimes give the first page of a range of choices for a given day. You may want to alternate them until you are able to get the four-volume set.

There are different versions of the book of Christian Prayer. A friend of mine has the large print version - which is quite limited. I have the regular version. There is a 4 week OOR psalmody(?) which parallels the regular 4 week psalmody and generally has 3 selections. And in addition there are 200 additional pages of both biblical and non-biblical OOR “readings” for different seasons: Advent, Easter, Ordinary time, etc.

And a large section (almost 300 pages) on music for all aspects of LOTH.

If you have a lot of free time, perhaps the 4 volume set is better, but this version will keep me busy for a few decades

Also, Universalis is the UK version of LOTH. (I forgot to see where the OP was located - so this may be good or not). That being said, I use the downloadable version of the Universalis LOTH on my Palm when I have no other options. There are some differences with the US version.

 

[rpp]

Strangely enough, the General Instruction of the Liturgy of the Hours states:

1. The invitatory is placed at the beginning of the whole sequence of the day’s prayer, that is, it precedes either morning prayer or the office of readings, whichever of these liturgical rites begins the day. The invitatory psalm with its antiphon may be omitted, however, when the invitatory is the prelude to morning prayer.

First, as many have mentioned, I also recommend getting the four-volume set. They usually run around a $135. There is a new large print edition that is about $200. If you cannot afford that, you can get them one volume at a time. We will be starting volume 4 in a few weeks so start with that one. That will get you through to Advent, when you will need volume 1.

I have been praying the LOTH daily with a community of Franciscan Nuns for a couple of years, beginning shortly after my confirmation. (I am the only man, they think it is cool! ) The Invitatory is always prayed before the first office of the day.

The Office of Readings is an optional office for most of those who are required by vows to pray the LOTH (priest, consecrated religious, etc.). For most who are bound to pray the LOTH, the only required offices are Morning Prayer, Evening Prayer and Night Prayer. Mid-Morning, Mid-day, or mid-Afternoon is usually optional. And when it is required, usually only one of these three offices is prayed.

Some religious communities who do pray the OOR get up at 3:00 or 4:00 AM to pray it and then return to bed. In this case, they would say the Invitatory before the OOR and would not include it when they later pray Morning Prayer.

Other communities pray the OOR at some other point in the day, often in the mid-morning or mid-afternoon so they have some time to meditate on it. In this case, the Invitatory would be said before Morning Prayer.

Often in religious communities where OOR is not required, many of the religious will pray it anyway, or at least read the readings and meditate on them. Though most will say that they meditate better if they pray the whole office, taking a long pause between after each of the two readings to ponder them.

I would like to point out that if you pray all the offices, you will pray seven times a day, 2 more than what Moslems pray! Again, those offices, with their traditional Latins names and approximate duration, are:

• Morning Prayer, Lauds, 12 - 15 minutes
• Mid-Morning Prayer, Terse, 3 - 6 minutes
• Mid-Day prayer, Sext, 3 - 6 minutes
• Mid-Afternoon Prayer, None, 3 - 6 minutes
• Evening Prayer, Vespers, 12 - 15 minutes
• Night Prayer, Compline, 5 - 8+ minutes, depends on duration of evaluation of conscience.
• Office of Readings, Matins, 8 - 20+ minutes, plus times to ponder what was read.
  As a lay person, I recommend praying Lauds, Vespers, and Compline **and **Matins.

For more information about the Liturgy of the Hours, take a look at this link. saint-mike.org/apologetics/qa/answers/divine_office/divine_office_view.html

 

[drforjc]

I don’t have the full instructions. I do find the instructions in general rather confusing. Re I wonder if that means one may skip it if the Invitiatory psalm is the same psalm as the first psalm or Morning Prayer.

Universalis offers
****QUOTE] The Invitatory PsalmThe Invitatory Psalm acts as a kind of introduction to the entire Divine Office for the day. When you say it therefore depends on which hour you recite first. If you start with Lauds, say it at the beginning of Lauds; if you start with the Office of Readings (which, you will recall, can be recited at any time of the day), then say the invitatory psalm at the beginning of the Office of Readings. If all that you recite in the day is Vespers, then say the invitatory psalm at the beginning of Vespers. This site lets you view versions of Lauds and the Office of Readings both with and without the invitatory psalm.

 

[drforjc]

I don’t have the full instructions. I do find the instructions in general rather confusing. Re I wonder if that means one may skip it if the Invitiatory psalm is the same psalm as the first psalm or Morning Prayer.

Universalis offers
****QUOTE] The Invitatory PsalmThe Invitatory Psalm acts as a kind of introduction to the entire Divine Office for the day. When you say it therefore depends on which hour you recite first. If you start with Lauds, say it at the beginning of Lauds; if you start with the Office of Readings (which, you will recall, can be recited at any time of the day), then say the invitatory psalm at the beginning of the Office of Readings. If all that you recite in the day is Vespers, then say the invitatory psalm at the beginning of Vespers. This site lets you view versions of Lauds and the Office of Readings both with and without the invitatory psalm.

A most confusing “rubric”!

I can’t figure out if it is saying that you don’t have to repeat the invitatory in the event that you already said it because you said the OOR before midnight or if it truly allows you to skip it if you are not planning on saying OOR and beginning the day with MP.

Nonetheless this rubric is there and it must mean something.

 

[rpp]

A most confusing “rubric”!

I can’t figure out if it is saying that you don’t have to repeat the invitatory in the event that you already said it because you said the OOR before midnight or if it truly allows you to skip it if you are not planning on saying OOR and beginning the day with MP.

Nonetheless this rubric is there and it must mean something.

Each day, the very first psalm that is said is the Invitatory. And you only say it once.

 

[drforjc]

First, as many have mentioned, I also recommend getting the four-volume set. They usually run around a $135. There is a new large print edition that is about $200. If you cannot afford that, you can get them one volume at a time. We will be starting volume 4 in a few weeks so start with that one. That will get you through to Advent, when you will need volume 1.

I have been praying the LOTH daily with a community of Franciscan Nuns for a couple of years, beginning shortly after my confirmation. (I am the only man, they think it is cool! ) The Invitatory is always prayed before the first office of the day.

The Office of Readings is an optional office for most of those who are required by vows to pray the LOTH (priest, consecrated religious, etc.). For most who are bound to pray the LOTH, the only required offices are Morning Prayer, Evening Prayer and Night Prayer. Mid-Morning, Mid-day, or mid-Afternoon is usually optional. And when it is required, usually only one of these three offices is prayed.

Some religious communities who do pray the OOR get up at 3:00 or 4:00 AM to pray it and then return to bed. In this case, they would say the Invitatory before the OOR and would not include it when they later pray Morning Prayer.

Other communities pray the OOR at some other point in the day, often in the mid-morning or mid-afternoon so they have some time to meditate on it. In this case, the Invitatory would be said before Morning Prayer.

Often in religious communities where OOR is not required, many of the religious will pray it anyway, or at least read the readings and meditate on them. Though most will say that they meditate better if they pray the whole office, taking a long pause between after each of the two readings to ponder them.

I would like to point out that if you pray all the offices, you will pray seven times a day, 2 more than what Moslems pray! Again, those offices, with their traditional Latins names and approximate duration, are:

• Morning Prayer, Lauds, 12 - 15 minutes
• Mid-Morning Prayer, Terse, 3 - 6 minutes
• Mid-Day prayer, Sext, 3 - 6 minutes
• Mid-Afternoon Prayer, None, 3 - 6 minutes
• Evening Prayer, Vespers, 12 - 15 minutes
• Night Prayer, Compline, 5 - 8+ minutes, depends on duration of evaluation of conscience.
• Office of Readings, Matins, 8 - 20+ minutes, plus times to ponder what was read.
  As a lay person, I recommend praying Lauds, Vespers, and Compline **and **Matins.

For more information about the Liturgy of the Hours, take a look at this link. saint-mike.org/apologetics/qa/answers/divine_office/divine_office_view.html

As a Lay Carmelite I say Lauds,Vespers, and Compline (from the 4 vol set.)

My question is, how are we supposed to interpret the rubric that I quoted from the GILH? I’m not concerned with the practice of any particular religious community but the canonical import of the quoted rubric.

 

[rpp]

As a Lay Carmelite I say Lauds,Vespers, and Compline (from the 4 vol set.)

My question is, how are we supposed to interpret the rubric that I quoted from the GILH? I’m not concerned with the practice of any particular religious community but the canonical import of the quoted rubric.

Each day, the very first psalm that is said is the Invitatory, and you only say it once. It is that simple. I hope this helps.

 

[ricmat]

Here’s another question, it’s not worth starting another thread…

For the morning, evening, and night prayer responsory in private recitation (using as an example Thursday morning prayer, week 2):

Do you say “Always you are there to help me. I think of you, O Lord.”

or do you say "Always you are there to help me. “In the early hours of the morning, I think of you O Lord.”

Sometimes it seems not to make sense to repeat the entire thing, and at other times it does.

Thanks in advance.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

Here’s another question, it’s not worth starting another thread…

For the morning, evening, and night prayer responsory in private recitation (using as an example Thursday morning prayer, week 2):

Do you say “Always you are there to help me. I think of you, O Lord.”

or do you say "Always you are there to help me. “In the early hours of the morning, I think of you O Lord.”

Sometimes it seems not to make sense to repeat the entire thing, and at other times it does.

The latter choice you gave is the correct one. In the Responsory, this is the usual pattern: a two-part verse is said and repeated in full (in a monastery this would be two “choirs” alternating), then a new “first half” of a verse is introduced and the “second half” of the original verse completes it. (I hope that makes sense!)

A further point — moving on to the next part of the Responsory, only the first half of the “Glory to the Father” is said (up to the word “Spirit”) before the original verse is repeated again.

 

[drforjc]

Each day, the very first psalm that is said is the Invitatory, and you only say it once. It is that simple. I hope this helps.

Sorry, this is not answering my question.
.
The invitatory psalm with its antiphon may be omitted, however, when the invitatory is the prelude to morning prayer.

Why would the Invitatory be “the prelude to morning prayer” if you had already said it before OOR?

Not simple at all, to me.

 

[rpp]

Sorry, this is not answering my question.
.
The invitatory psalm with its antiphon may be omitted, however, when the invitatory is the prelude to morning prayer.

Why would the Invitatory be “the prelude to morning prayer” if you had already said it before OOR?

Not simple at all, to me.

This is one of those cases where the rule is more complicated than it needs to be, in my humble opinion. This would not be the only time such a liturgical rubric is stated in a less than clear fashion.

Follow my earlier guideline, the Invitatory, with it’s antiphon, is the first psalm said each day and it is said only once. I do not know why the rubric is written in such a convoluted manner. Hoever, the rule I gave you has been confirmed by three sources, the community of Franciscan nuns I pray with each day, my priest, and a Carmelite tertiary who has been praying the LOTH for more than 30 years.

Even if this guideline does not cover all possible circumstances, it will server your needs, I think.

 

[hilde_the_dog]

Dank thanks for starting this thread I’m learning alot and clarifying things. Thanks to you all.

 

[hilde_the_dog]

I have additonal question and not to highjack this thread, but have you noticed in the LOTH how many hymns have as there last verse references to the Holy Trinity? I’m not complaining. I like it but why?