Liturgy of the Hours pre Vatican ll?

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katolik:
The FSSP also publishes a Divine Office book, as does Angelus Press.
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If you are a faithful Catholic and wish to avoid schismatic groups I would stay away from Angelus Press.

A quick look at their website makes it look like they support the SSPX.

For example, right on the first page viewed…

2005 Marcel Lefebvre Centenary Calendar
Biography of Marcel Lefebvre

The biography of an excommunicated schismatic?

And then if you look to their Pamphlets web page you find…

Who Are We? What Are We Doing? - about the SSPX

62 Reasons: Why the Traditional Latin Mass - tells why one can not attend the Mass of the Catholic Church

Schismatic? Excommunicated? Rome says NO! - out right falsehood about the SSPX not being schismatic and its bishops not being excommunicated

Again, I would stay away from them.
 
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ByzCath:
If you are a faithful Catholic and wish to avoid schismatic groups I would stay away from Angelus Press.

A quick look at their website makes it look like they support the SSPX.

For example, right on the first page viewed…

2005 Marcel Lefebvre Centenary Calendar
Biography of Marcel Lefebvre

The biography of an excommunicated schismatic?

And then if you look to their Pamphlets web page you find…

Who Are We? What Are We Doing? - about the SSPX

62 Reasons: Why the Traditional Latin Mass - tells why one can not attend the Mass of the Catholic Church

Schismatic? Excommunicated? Rome says NO! - out right falsehood about the SSPX not being schismatic and its bishops not being excommunicated

Again, I would stay away from them.
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I second that. I’m sure that some are going to come back and say that not all they print is bad. Why would you ever give money to a company that promotes schism? This is similar to saying, I’ll give money to Planned Parenthood because they do provide some good services.

The Angelus press is the printing arm of SSPX. In fact, when you send away for the SSPX schismo pack, just about all of the the publications Byzantine mentioned above and more are in it from Angelus Press.
 
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ByzCath:
If you are a faithful Catholic and wish to avoid schismatic groups I would stay away from Angelus Press.

A quick look at their website makes it look like they support the SSPX.

For example, right on the first page viewed…

2005 Marcel Lefebvre Centenary Calendar
Biography of Marcel Lefebvre

The biography of an excommunicated schismatic?

And then if you look to their Pamphlets web page you find…

Who Are We? What Are We Doing? - about the SSPX

62 Reasons: Why the Traditional Latin Mass - tells why one can not attend the Mass of the Catholic Church

Schismatic? Excommunicated? Rome says NO! - out right falsehood about the SSPX not being schismatic and its bishops not being excommunicated

Again, I would stay away from them.
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Byzcath,
you strain at a splinter and don’t notice the beam in your eye…
You yourself gave us a link to an anglican breviary. The anglicans are heretics and schismatics. Also would you disapprove of being icons from the HOCNA or ROCOR? Or telling a person to read a book by a schismatic bishop[bp.Kallistos Ware]?
 
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katolik:
Byzcath,
you strain at a splinter and don’t notice the beam in your eye…
You yourself gave us a link to an anglican breviary. The anglicans are heretics and schismatics. Also would you disapprove of being icons from the HOCNA or ROCOR? Or telling a person to read a book by a schismatic bishop[bp.Kallistos Ware]?
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You examples lack one thing.

Angelus Press makes itself appear Catholic. It also denies the fact that the SSPX are schismatic and that its bishops are excommunicated.

The link I provided to the Anglican Breviary states that it is not Catholic but that it is a translation of the old Latin Divine Office.

As for icons, icons are icons. If I buy them from an Orthodox site I know it is that and not Catholic becuase it says it is.

I also do recommend books by Bishop Ware on the Orthodox Church.

I have answered your cry of schism for the Orthodox and will not argue it. I wonder why people like you seem to be silent on how protestants are schismatic or how the SSPX is in schism.

Seems you have issues, you attack me and leave bear06’s comment alone.
 
Other pre-Vatican 2 traditions:
speaking in tongues as something happening fairly frequently, receiving Jesus on the hand, deaconnesses (though not they weren’t given orders), simpler church buildings, even round churches (was it the Hagia Sophia?). I’m sure there are others. Heresy is also, cafeteria Catholics of the far-right and far-left.
 
Heresy is also, cafeteria Catholics of the far-right and far-left
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Yep, you go too far to the right or too far to the left, you meet in the middle in anarchy! (I’ve always loved that quote!)
 
It is anarchy. Sure, not all the Pope or bishops say is binding, but the attitude of finding any loopholes to keep harassing and defying the Vatican about anything Vatican 2 and beyond or anything pre-Vatican 2. Liberals play legalism as well as conservatives can. Michael Davie’s I Am With You Always" (not to be mistaken by another publication of the same name) as well as 3 books (in a series) by an author who uses the last name of Morissey (sp?) are level-headed approaches to this for the far-right to learn a thing or two about and EWTN is good for the rest. Unfortunately, certain authority figures confused everyone and those who only wanted the social aspect of Catholicism went one way and those who are for the classic disciplines and traditions went the other way and both have their own heresies and/or errors. None on either extreme can really trust a company like EWTN or traditionalists like the FSSP because the middle looks always like compromise to each extreme. EWTN aved me from indifferentism, I believe; Michael Davies fully balanced me with his book which I mentioned when I went far-right. EWTN, I believe, despite maybe playing some Protestant songs on its radio station, is the best global medium we’ve got to know what the Church truly teaches.
 
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ByzCath:
You examples lack one thing.

Angelus Press makes itself appear Catholic. It also denies the fact that the SSPX are schismatic and that its bishops are excommunicated.

The link I provided to the Anglican Breviary states that it is not Catholic but that it is a translation of the old Latin Divine Office.

As for icons, icons are icons. If I buy them from an Orthodox site I know it is that and not Catholic becuase it says it is.

I also do recommend books by Bishop Ware on the Orthodox Church.

I have answered your cry of schism for the Orthodox and will not argue it. I wonder why people like you seem to be silent on how protestants are schismatic or how the SSPX is in schism.

Seems you have issues, you attack me and leave bear06’s comment alone.
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Saying a Protestant is a heretic and schismatic is implied. Everyone knows all Protestants are heretics and schismatics. That doesn’t need to be proven, it is already proven.

The Schismatic " orthodox:" are schismatic becuase they reject
the dogma of “filioque”
The Immacualte Conception of Mary
the authority of the Pope
and refusal of submission to the Pope.
 
I don’t mean to beat up on the Protestants by saying that Protestantism leads many of its members, as a collective, to atheism. Any religion with firm teachings is better for society than atheism. Unfortunately, many denominations are officially blowing off its foundational teachings to make its flock and possible converters more comfortable. In its place, you have activities for everyone. Western society has gone from unity via the Eucharist to a one perfect for mankind-worship (how can we fulfill ourselves by our own means). It might as well cut out the phony steps in between in which all say they are Christian and just declare the church to be secular modernist.
 
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katolik:
Saying a Protestant is a heretic and schismatic is implied. Everyone knows all Protestants are heretics and schismatics. That doesn’t need to be proven, it is already proven.
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And everyone knows that the Orthodox are out side of the Catholic Church, but crying schismatic does nothing.
The Schismatic " orthodox:" are schismatic becuase they reject
the dogma of “filioque”
The Immacualte Conception of Mary
the authority of the Pope
and refusal of submission to the Pope.
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Well now, I think this shows some misunderstandings of not only Catholic Teaching but also Orthodox Teachings.

The filoque is not dogma, the Holy Father frequently omits it from the Creed.

The Byzantine Catholic Churches have mostly removed it from our recitation of the Creed as we have been directed to by the Holy Father.

The Byzantine Catholic Churches, as well as the Orthodox Churches, do not celebrate the Immaculate Conception, you will not find it on our liturgical calendars. We celebrate the Conception of Saint Ann.

For the Orthodox and the Byzantine Catholics, the Immaculate Conception proclimation was not necessary as our view of Original Sin differs from the Augustinian view of it. When Orthodox say that they do not believe in the “Immaculate Conception” they are usually speaking about the proclimation, as it is full of western theological language and puts forward the Agustinian view of Original Sin, which is just one view of it and it not dogma. The current Catechism has stepped away from that view somewhat.

We, Byzantine Catholics as well as the Orthodox, believe that Mary was born sinless and remained sinless.

You are correct on the part about the pope. The some of the Orthodox do consider the pope to be first among equals but they do not submit and deny his authority.

That is the main reason I am a Byzantine Catholic.
 
That’s strange. I could have sworn the Immaculate Conception, the Pope being the successor of Peter and thus, head manager (not owner, of course) of Christ’s Church on Earth, and the part about the Father begetting the Son and both together begetting the Holy Spirit was dogma for all Catholics obedient to Rome. When was dissent allowed here for any Catholic?
 
work(name removed by moderator)rogress:
That’s strange. I could have sworn the Immaculate Conception, the Pope being the successor of Peter and thus, head manager (not owner, of course) of Christ’s Church on Earth, and the part about the Father begetting the Son and both together begetting the Holy Spirit was dogma for all Catholics obedient to Rome. When was dissent allowed here for any Catholic?
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Please show me where I said that dissent was allowed regarding the sinlessness of Mary.

The term, Immaculate Conception, is sort of a loaded term. When most Roman Catholics use it they are thinking of the “stain” of Original Sin, the Augustian view of Original Sin (which is not dogma). The Byzantine Churches (both Catholic and Orthodox) never held this view so the language used in the proclimation of the Immaculate Conception is western in nature and really doesn’t fit for us and anyways we have always held that Mary was sinless so please point to the problem.

As for the filioque, that has never been required of Byzantine Catholics. We were told to remove it from the Creed if it was there. The Holy Father frequently leaves it out of the Creed when he recites it in Latin and he always omits it when at a Divine Liturgy.
 
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ByzCath:
The filoque is not dogma, the Holy Father frequently omits it from the Creed.
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Decree of Damasus, A.D. 382, Dz 83: “For the Holy Spirit is not only the Spirit of the Father or not only the Spirit of the Son, but the Spirit of the Father and of the Son.” Council of Toledo, A.D. 675, Dz 277: “…He [the Holy Spirit] is the Spirit of both, not, however, begotten nor created but proceeding from both.” “Ex quo”, “Certain Errors of the Orientals”, Pius X, 1910, Dz 2147a, “grave error”: “No less rashly than falsely does one approach this opinion, that the dogma concerning the procession of the Holy Spirit from the Son by no means is taken from the very words of the Gospel, or is sanctioned by the faith of the ancient Fathers”. “Profession of Faith Prescribed for the Greeks”, Gregory XIII, A.D. 1575, Dz 1083: “…I accept and profess all the things which the holy ecumenical Synod of Florence defined and declared concerning the union of the western and eastern Church, namely that the Holy Spirit is eternally from the Father and the Son; and that He has His essence and His subsistent being from the Father and from the Son together; and that He proceeds from both eternally, as from one principle…”
 
Why are you a former traditionalist? You could be FSSP or Society of Saint John or other ones obedient to the Holy See. There’s a couple I see who go to a respectful, reverent novuis ordo mass and “EWTN show host” speakers while also attending a Latin mass celebrated by an FSSP priest.
 
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