Liturgy of the Hours

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dennis_regan

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Hi everybody.

I’ve just started to pray the Divine Office - mainly Morning and Evening prayer.

I have just purchased the OFFICIUM DIVINUM, published by Angelus Press. It is a beautifully printed book, but is written in Pre Vatican II language, and is thus a bit difficult. Is this just a question of getting used to the language, or did I pick the wrong book?

I wonder if any of you are familiar with this book.

I’d appreciate any (name removed by moderator)ut.

Thanks.
 
dennis_regan said:
Hi everybody.

I’ve just started to pray the Divine Office - mainly Morning and Evening prayer.

I have just purchased the OFFICIUM DIVINUM, published by Angelus Press. It is a beautifully printed book, but is written in Pre Vatican II language, and is thus a bit difficult. Is this just a question of getting used to the language, or did I pick the wrong book?

I wonder if any of you are familiar with this book.

I’d appreciate any (name removed by moderator)ut.

Thanks.
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When you say that it is “written in Pre Vatican II language”, do you mean the office is in Latin?
 
No, that’s not what I mean. There is Latin, with English translation but the English is not modern such as in our modern-day Mass translations.
Sorry, I’m probably not explaining myself too well.
 
dennis_regan said:
No, that’s not what I mean. There is Latin, with English translation but the English is not modern such as in our modern-day Mass translations.
Sorry, I’m probably not explaining myself too well.
Click to expand...
If you are praying the Office in English, maybe it would have been better to get the one volume Christian Prayer (not sure of the correct name, but I think this is it) or the four volume Liturgy of the Hours. The one volume has all of the hours except Matins (“Office of Readings”).

But, if you can get past the awkwardness of the language, and think maybe in the future you would like to learn how to pray the Office in Latin, I see no reason to ditch the one you purchased.
 
I don’t see praying in Latin in my future. However, I’ll persevere with the book I’m using for now.
Thanks for your insight.🙂
 
I’m guessing it’s the pre-conciliar version of the Divine Office. That being the case, the only licit way to pray it as liturgy, is in Latin as there was never an official translation made. The translation in your book is merely to allow comprehension of the Latin.

If you pray it as a private devotion then praying it in English is fine and it’s a great way to gain appreciation for the Divine Office.

I pray a post-conciliar Office, either the 4-week Liturgy of the Hours or a 1- or 2-week monastic version. I pray at least Lauds and Vespers in Latin. What I do is chant the psalm in Latin then read it silently in my native language (French), as the books I use have French beside the Latin. It’s fairly easy to do with the LOTH as it’s relatively short.

However in the case of my books, the French side happens to be the official French liturgical translation so I can (and do sometimes) pray it in French instead of Latin.

However for the pre-conciliar Office, no vernacular translation was ever approved.
 
dennis_regan said:
Hi everybody.

I’ve just started to pray the Divine Office - mainly Morning and Evening prayer.

I have just purchased the OFFICIUM DIVINUM, published by Angelus Press. It is a beautifully printed book, but is written in Pre Vatican II language, and is thus a bit difficult. Is this just a question of getting used to the language, or did I pick the wrong book?

I wonder if any of you are familiar with this book.

I’d appreciate any (name removed by moderator)ut.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
I’m of the opinion that you picked the wrong book (and this whole post is nothing more than my personal opinion).

This particular book focuses on Prime, Sext and Compline, which I’m not too keen on. For one thing, Prime was abolished by the Second Vatican Council itself, and Compline is Night Prayer. They are not really the key or “hinge” hours as defined by the Church, which are Lauds and Vespers (Morning and Evening Prayer).

Traditionalists would like like this opinion, but even when praying the traditional office, we still do so with the mind of the Church, and Vatican II is part of the mind of the Church. The Church’s thought is that the Office revolves around Lauds and Vespers.

Therefore, I would posit that a better book would have been either Christian Prayer, or even Shorter Christian Prayer (both of which are the revised Office, the Liturgy of the Hours), or if you wanted to stick with the traditional office, the Diurnale Romanum.

As Ora already said, if you want to pray the traditional Office as the Office, then it can be said only in Latin. Otherwise, the English would just be private devotional prayer. With the Liturgy of the Hours, however, using the official English translation does count towards saying the Office as the Office.
 
dennis_regan said:
Thanks, friends.

Perhaps this will be a better option at the moment.

catholicbookpublishing.com/products/103
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It was good enough for us in college seminary in the mid 1960’s, before craziness became wide spread. And it is still good enough for today.

It drives me a bit bonkers when someone suggests to a neophyte the four volume set; aside from the expense (and maybe because of it), it is too difficult for a neophyte to wade through. It is more likely to encourage quitting, rather than gradually growing in the recitation of the various hours (and the love thereof).
 
dennis_regan said:
Thanks, friends.

Perhaps this will be a better option at the moment.

catholicbookpublishing.com/products/103
Click to expand...
That is fine; I started with that. It’s approved for liturgical use.

However, I would suggest that if you can, start instead with the full, one-volume Christian Prayer, so that you get the full calendar of Saints and Seasons, but it contains just the full texts for Morning, Evening and Night Prayer, which is well suited for the lay life. Shorter Christian Prayer has the full Psalter, but has only one week’s worth of texts each for the Advent, Lent and Easter seasons, and very little of the Proper of Saints. Christian Prayer will have all that complete for Morning Prayer and Evening Prayer.

What it will NOT have in its entirety, is the Office of Readings and Daytime Prayer.

catholicbookpublishing.com/products/100
 
otjm said:
It drives me a bit bonkers when someone suggests to a neophyte the four volume set; aside from the expense (and maybe because of it), it is too difficult for a neophyte to wade through. It is more likely to encourage quitting, rather than gradually growing in the recitation of the various hours (and the love thereof).
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No it’s not. Christian Prayer and Shorter Christian Prayer are just as difficult to wade through, and for certain times (e.g. Christmas Season), Shorter Christian Prayer is sometimes nearly impossible to use.

No, the determining factor is whether one wants to pray the Office of Readings. If yes, then the four-volume is a must. Otherwise, Christian Prayer suffices.
 
For getting started and not having to figure out which week we’re on, which saint is being celebrated, etc., consider using divineoffice.org They make it all very easy!
 
As a result of this discussion, does anyone want to purchase a very slightly used Officium Divinum?
🙂
 
dennis_regan said:
As a result of this discussion, does anyone want to purchase a very slightly used Officium Divinum?
🙂
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I would keep it if I were you. We do not know what the future holds, and what seems daunting to you now, may one day not be so.

Praying the Divine Office really isn’t difficult once you get the hang of it, especially if you are praying it in English. I began in 1982 when someone handed me Volume I as a gift. Fortunately for me, I was making a retreat at a convent at the time. The sisters were once a semi-cloistered order and one of them offered to help teach me, but she later confessed to having forgotten how to say it, since in the late sixties they stopped praying the Divine Office in their community.
 
My Christian Prayer has morning, mid morning, noon, mid afternoon, evening and night prayer which I use in my OCDS community and also daily. It works Ok for me and easy to use with the guide for what prayers to say each day.
 
porthos11 said:
No it’s not. Christian Prayer and Shorter Christian Prayer are just as difficult to wade through, and for certain times (e.g. Christmas Season), Shorter Christian Prayer is sometimes nearly impossible to use.

No, the determining factor is whether one wants to pray the Office of Readings. If yes, then the four-volume is a must. Otherwise, Christian Prayer suffices.
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Perhaps you had a problem with the two; I didn’t have a problem; then, again, we had the privilege of saying it in community. And as noted - Shorter Christian Prayer worked just fine for us.

Let’s get serious for a minute. Someone who has not been saying the LOTH, and is just getting started, may find that it doesn’t really fit them (for any number of reasons, or any number of excuses). Investing in the least expensive alternative (and least complex) allows them to try it out for a month, 6 months, a year, two years or more. If they want more, they can step up.

I managed for years with Shorter Christian Prayer, then I stepped up to Christian Prayer, and had that for maybe 5 to 10 more years (and still had the first one). Eventually I stepped up to the 4 volume set. Because my time allowances during those periods limited me to Lauds and Vespers pretty much, it was no hindrance of any sort.

I looked on Amazon; Shorter Christian Prayer could be had for under $8.50 used (plus shipping); Christian Prayer used was over $27 (plus shipping). Given a neophyte does not know if 6 months or a year from now they will still be sticking to it, why spend over three times as much for not essentially a whole lot more?
 
otjm said:
Perhaps you had a problem with the two; I didn’t have a problem; then, again, we had the privilege of saying it in community. And as noted - Shorter Christian Prayer worked just fine for us.

Let’s get serious for a minute. Someone who has not been saying the LOTH, and is just getting started, may find that it doesn’t really fit them (for any number of reasons, or any number of excuses). Investing in the least expensive alternative (and least complex) allows them to try it out for a month, 6 months, a year, two years or more. If they want more, they can step up.

I managed for years with Shorter Christian Prayer, then I stepped up to Christian Prayer, and had that for maybe 5 to 10 more years (and still had the first one). Eventually I stepped up to the 4 volume set. Because my time allowances during those periods limited me to Lauds and Vespers pretty much, it was no hindrance of any sort.

I looked on Amazon; Shorter Christian Prayer could be had for under $8.50 used (plus shipping); Christian Prayer used was over $27 (plus shipping). Given a neophyte does not know if 6 months or a year from now they will still be sticking to it, why spend over three times as much for not essentially a whole lot more?
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I had no problems with either, or the four-volume. Just saying they’re just as complex to navigate.

I still recommend he start with Christian Prayer and skip Shorter if possible. The only determining factor as to whether one would get the four-volume is if one wants to do the Office of Readings. Complexity is not the determining factor in the choice, as all three editions are equally complex.

Well, actually, I’d say equally simple, if one just reads the rubrics in the Ordinary.
 
I started with “Shorter Christian Prayer” last Fall, and really enjoyed doing so until Advent. The four weeks of repeating the same thing over and over frustrated me. I used part of my tax refund to get “Christian Prayer” (the one volume) before Lent started. I like this one much better than “Shorter Christian Prayer.”

I will eventually get the 4 volume set, but I’m trying to hold off on that until the new translation is available.
 
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