"Liturgy" or "Mass"

[PKinsale]

I’ve noticed some parishes and Catholic schools seem to avoid using the word Mass and preferring the more general and therefore inaccurate term “liturgy.”

Any ideas why?

 

[MarkThompson]

I’ve noticed some parishes and Catholic schools seem to avoid using the word Mass and preferring the more general and therefore inaccurate term “liturgy.”

Any ideas why?

In some cases it is because it includes non-Mass liturgical celebrations such as vespers or a Communion service.

 

[PKinsale]

Thanks, Mark but I am referring specifically to the Mass being called that. It abounds in parish websites and church bulletins and parochial school schedules near me.

 

[jpjd]

Lliturgy" is not a more inaccurate term.

The Mass* is* a liturgy. In fact, in the Eastern Church, they don’t call it the Mass, they call it the Divine Liturgy.

 

[Will_S]

Lliturgy" is not a more inaccurate term.

The Mass* is* a liturgy. In fact, in the Eastern Church, they don’t call it the Mass, they call it the Divine Liturgy.

But other things are liturgy also. The poster’s point was, I suppose, that “liturgy” is less specific than “Mass”, and when it’s Mass, why not call it that?

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’ve noticed some parishes and Catholic schools seem to avoid using the word Mass and preferring the more general and therefore inaccurate term “liturgy.”

Any ideas why?

Liturgy isn’t inaccurate. It comes from the Greek word, leitourgia. It is what the Mass was called before it was in Latin and adopted the name missa. That is why in the Byzantine Rite which developed from the Greek side of the Roman Empire, the Eucharistic Celebration is called the Divine Liturgy. Because the name was directly translated from Greek. I agree that Mass is very specific to the Latin Rite Liturgy, but “liturgy” is not an inaccurate term.

 

[MisterCorduroy]

The term “Mass” is derived from the Late Latin word missa (dismissal), a word used in the concluding formula of Mass in Latin: “Ite, missa est” (“Go; it is the dismissal”). Liturgy means “Work of the people”. The Mass is a liturgy. Even the Vatican website refers to “Liturgical Celebrations” rather than papal masses.

“In antiquity, missa simply meant ‘dismissal’. In Christian usage, however, it gradually took on a deeper meaning. The word ‘dismissal’ has come to imply a ‘mission’. These few words succinctly express the missionary nature of the Church” (Pope Benedict XVI, Sacramentum caritatis, 51)

The Roman Mass is actually made up of two liturgies: The Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist. The Eastern Divine Liturgy is made up of three: The Liturgy of Preparation, the Liturgy of the Catechumens, and the Liturgy of the Faithful.

 

[EasterJoy]

First off, it is inaccurate to say that “more general” necessarily means “less accurate”. A more general term is less precise, but need not be less accurate. In this case, it is entirely accurate to say that a Mass is a liturgy.

So why not be more precise? Because with one unexpected change of plans, the more precise becomes the less accurate.

For instance, if you use “liturgy” instead of “Mass” in the announcement that starts “Welcome to this liturgy” and ends with “please see to it that all electronic devices have been silenced”, you can use that announcement for every liturgy held in the church, regardless of whether it is a Mass or not. (Funerals and weddings, for instance, do not always include Mass, but you still need the announcement, which is probably taped to the announcement rostrum.)

Schools, likewise, may refer to what is usually a weekly Mass as a weekly liturgy because some weeks Father can’t be there, and a liturgy other than Mass has to be substituted. You don’t announce that there will be a Mass if you can’t promise that there will be Mass. (At our local school, the annual graduation liturgy is listed on the calendar as a Mass. If Father can’t be there, they’ve been assured that another priest will be found,. and there will be a Mass.)

IOW, the general term works when you need a term to put on the calendar or the always-used announcement and you can’t guarantee that it will only describe a Mass. Better safe than sorry.

 

[ConstantineTG]

When I speak about the Eucharistic Celebration in general, I always say Liturgy. When I say Mass I’m referring to the Latin Eucharistic Celebration. When I say Divine Liturgy I mean the Byzantine one. So really, Liturgy is not inaccurate.

 

[oraproOz]

For us of the Western Latin Rite of the Catholic Church, the Mass is the Mass. Many have have shed their blood so that we may the privilege and honour to offer our unworthy part in the Sacrifice offered daily upon the altar.

 

[ConstantineTG]

For us of the Western Latin Rite of the Catholic Church, the Mass is the Mass. Many have have shed their blood so that we may the privilege and honour to offer our unworthy part in the Sacrifice offered daily upon the altar.

Sorry if I’m getting the wrong impression here, but you seem to be implying that there are no martyrs in the East who shed blood so we can take part in the Divine Liturgy today. And also that the Mass is different from the Divine Liturgy. In fact it is not. While the traditions surrounding it is different, it is essentially the same. We hear the word of God, then we partake of the Mystical Supper of Christ, the awesome, life giving mystery of the Eucharist.

 

[PKinsale]

Thanks, all.

Constantine, I was speaking specifically of the Latin Rite, sorry. I do understand where you are coming from about the Divine Liturgy and respect it immensely.

I also understand that sometimes a Communion Service may be offered, and I do understand that “imprecise” may be better than “inaccurate.” But I am seeing a preference in some circles for using the more general term Liturgy to replace Mass. I would not mind at all if they used Divine Liturgy, but that is not usually used for the Latin Rite Mass.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Thanks, all.

Constantine, I was speaking specifically of the Latin Rite, sorry. I do understand where you are coming from about the Divine Liturgy and respect it immensely.

I also understand that sometimes a Communion Service may be offered, and I do understand that “imprecise” may be better than “inaccurate.” But I am seeing a preference in some circles for using the more general term Liturgy to replace Mass. I would not mind at all if they used Divine Liturgy, but that is not usually used for the Latin Rite Mass.

But the Mass IS a Liturgy. That was my point. The terminology “Mass” just came about because of the language. The Mass is not something different from the Divine Liturgy or the Holy Qurbana of the Assyrians. They are the same Eucharistic Celebrations even though they are expressed in different traditions.

A rose by any other name is still a rose.

 

[PKinsale]

Yes, but the Mass is not The Liturgy.

 

[jmcrae]

I’ve noticed some parishes and Catholic schools seem to avoid using the word Mass and preferring the more general and therefore inaccurate term “liturgy.”

Any ideas why?

Because if it’s taking place at the school, then what takes place may indeed be a liturgy, and not actually a Mass - especially if Father is suddenly called away for an emergency, and the Mass has to be replaced with readings and prayers.

 

[OraLabora]

Yes, but the Mass is not The Liturgy.

Truth in advertising. If the OP’s area is like here with a priest shortage, some days (and some Sundays) it may be a Mass, and some days (and some Sundays) it may be a communion service (or no liturgy at all).

Using the word “liturgy” covers all bases. In our parish, during weekdays, when there is no Mass, Lauds is celebrated instead.

Which is a “liturgy”.

There are far more important things to lose sleep over.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Let’s take a moment to go through a scenario.

You’re in a new town, and decide you want to go to mass. You go to a church, and on that church’s sign, you see “Liturgy Times” with several times listed.

But, when you first see that church’s sign, you might be confused for a moment and might even wonder if you’re at a Catholic church, because at the vast majority of Catholic churches, you would see the mass advertised as “mass.” After thinking for a moment, you figure it’s safe to assume that all of these will be masses, and not any other type of liturgy, because that is generally the type of liturgy that laity is present at.

So, while technically correct, for the sake of normalcy and recognition, “mass” is probably a much better way of publicly getting the word out that what’s going on is in fact a mass. It may very well be the case that a church celebrates mass and also public vespers or something. That’s fine. But, in all honesty, no church would just lump all their liturgical rite times into one and advertise them as “Liturgy Times.” That’s just ridiculous, not to mention extremely misleading. If there were in fact other liturgies being celebrated at the church, they’d almost surely be advertised differently. People shouldn’t have to guess at the “liturgy of the day” being celebrated.

Here on this thread we have some arguing that a church calling the mass the “liturgy” is correct. And it is. But it’s just kind of… misleading. It’s as if the churches using that term just want to be “different” and “new,” and want to fit in with the church down the street.

The problem here is with the reasoning behind it. It seems that nowadays, we’re afraid to be (Latin Rite) Catholics. Many of us feel that we have to subtly apologize for it, and this is one of the ways in which this apology manifests. We should embrace our (Latin Rite) Catholic identity, and calling our Eucharistic liturgy the “mass” is part of it, especially when you see it on a sign in front of a church.

Someone’s probably going to scoff at my post and get all offended, and that’s fine. While most of us on this site might surely understand that what we are seeing when we see “Liturgy Times” on a sign in front of a Catholic church are in fact mass times, we should remember that most of us on this site have a certain prowess for Catholicism that your average parishioner does not. I’d be willing to bet that many Catholics don’t even know of any other liturgies besides the mass. I rest my case.

 

[Cristiano]

I think that all of you should start reading two books, both of them are called the “Spirit of the Liturgy”. The first by Romano Guardini refers to the EF and the second by Joseph Ratzinger refers to both the OF and the EF. Refusing to call the Mass liturgy is just out of ignorance and lack of basic understanding of what the Holy Sacrifice of the mass is about.

 

[jmcrae]

Here on this thread we have some arguing that a church calling the mass the “liturgy” is correct. And it is. But it’s just kind of… misleading. It’s as if the churches using that term just want to be “different” and “new,” and want to fit in with the church down the street.

Well, unless the church down the street is another Catholic Church, it won’t be calling its services “liturgies.” The word “Liturgy” is a distinctively Catholic word. Other religions and other forms of Christianity don’t use it. (Anglicans and Lutherans - and even concert halls - sometimes do have “Mass,” though.)

We should embrace our (Latin Rite) Catholic identity, and calling our Eucharistic liturgy the “mass” is part of it, especially when you see it on a sign in front of a church.

I don’t think we’re talking about a sign in front of a Church. We’re talking about the announcement page in a school newsletter - and since the newsletter is typically written two weeks before publication (meaning, one week before anyone has been able to get hold of the priest to see if the “liturgy” will in fact be a Mass, or something else), it is perfectly appropriate, given the situation, to call it a “Liturgy” since, while we know something liturgical will take place at that time, whether or not it will be a Mass is, as yet, unknown.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Well, unless the church down the street is another Catholic Church, it won’t be calling its services “liturgies.” The word “Liturgy” is a distinctively Catholic word. Other religions and other forms of Christianity don’t use it. (Anglicans and Lutherans - and even concert halls - sometimes do have “Mass,” though.)

I don’t think we’re talking about a sign in front of a Church. We’re talking about the announcement page in a school newsletter - and since the newsletter is typically written two weeks before publication (meaning, one week before anyone has been able to get hold of the priest to see if the “liturgy” will in fact be a Mass, or something else), it is perfectly appropriate, given the situation, to call it a “Liturgy” since, while we know something liturgical will take place at that time, whether or not it will be a Mass is, as yet, unknown.

I’m talking about maintaining a sense of familiarity. “Mass” is a familiar word when referring specifically to the Eucharistic liturgy, and “liturgy” on its own is not. I knew the word “liturgy” before I became Catholic, and I never associated it specifically with Catholicism. I just knew it was some “religious word.”

The original poster never specified in what instance the word “liturgy,” whether a sign or a newsletter. I used the sign situation because I know of two Catholic churches that I sometimes pass while driving that use the word “liturgy” on their signs instead of the word “mass.” When I first saw it, I was somewhat confused.

And how likely is it that a priest just wakes up one morning and decides that a “liturgy” will take place three weeks later, notifies whoever writes the newsletter of his decision, but waits until three days before the day of the “liturgy” to decide what specific sort of liturgy it will be?

I think that all of you should start reading two books, both of them are called the “Spirit of the Liturgy”. The first by Romano Guardini refers to the EF and the second by Joseph Ratzinger refers to both the OF and the EF. Refusing to call the Mass liturgy is just out of ignorance and lack of basic understanding of what the Holy Sacrifice of the mass is about.

It’s probably not likely that the majority of Catholics will read these books or have even heard of them.

It’s not refusing to call the mass a liturgy. It is, like I said, just maintaining a sense of familiarity to call it a “mass.”