Liturgy that Matters

[philipmarus]

I read the other day on the CATHOLIC WORLD NEWS that new translation of the Mass into English is near completion which hopes to restore the sense of the sacred to the Mass of Pope Paul VI. According to the article from what I remember one of the changes will the response to The Lord be With You, the “And also with you” will be changed to “And with your spirit” or something close to that effect. My question is does anyone know how soon this like to be introduced in local parishes?

pm

 

[Detroit_Sue]

I got a buck that says it never sees St. Joans in Minneapolis, nor most of the parishes in the Archdiocese of Detroit.

 

[katherine2]

Detroit Sue:

I got a buck that says it never sees St. Joans in Minneapolis, nor most of the parishes in the Archdiocese of Detroit.

I got two bucks that the translators never claimed the current translation lacks a sense of the sacred.

 

[davidc2]

My understanding is the translation is close to being finished. Once complete there are a few additional steps:

1. approval by national bishops’ conference (USCCB for the US) - meets twice a year. The just completed their current meeting this week.
2. recognitio from the Holy See
3. effective and mandatory dates declared by the USCCB

IMO, the first step is the one that is likely to be the slowest. It could be approved next spring - or, more likely, next November. That would make an effective date of 1st Sunday in Advent, 2005 a possibility - but 1st Sunday in Advent, 2006 more likely.

This, of course, assumes no other snags (like sending it back to ICEL for more revisions, etc.)

 

[asquared]

does anybody have word on when the new lectionary in Spanish will be ready?

 

[davidc2]

asquared:

does anybody have word on when the new lectionary in Spanish will be ready?

Keep an eye on the USCCB website. I know it was discussed at the just ended meeting, but I don’t know if it was approved or not.

 

[kmktexas]

asquared:

does anybody have word on when the new lectionary in Spanish will be ready?

I didn’t know they were re-doing Spanish. The Spanish lecionary is a pretty tight translation to the Latin - which is much easier to do with Spanish than with English. I know the English was ordered to be redone since the last translation was done so poorly.

What, if you know, is the reason given for a Spanish revision?

 

[moira]

Ahh, Latin. It never changes!!

 

[mtr01]

davidc2:

Keep an eye on the USCCB website. I know it was discussed at the just ended meeting, but I don’t know if it was approved or not.

Unfortunately, with the election of Bishop Trautman to head the USCCB office on the Liturgy, the new translation could be a long time in the coming (he was one of the driving forces behind the “inclusive language” movement). Regardless, I predict there to be a great deal of resistance to the new translation. Fr. Peter Stravinskas on EWTN even suggested it might come down to Cardinal Arinze and the Vatican having to impose it on the USCCB.

 

[mercygate]

mtr01:

Fr. Peter Stravinskas on EWTN even suggested it might come down to Cardinal Arinze and the Vatican having to impose it on the USCCB.

Can they do that? Let’s pray for it. Otherwise, the USCCB will lock it up in “Dubia” until people think it has been waived for the US.

 

[mtr01]

mercygate:

Can they do that? Let’s pray for it. Otherwise, the USCCB will lock it up in “Dubia” until people think it has been waived for the US.

I’m no canon lawyer, but I assume that as the ultimate authority in the Church, the Vatican could pretty much “make” us do whatever they wanted us to do in regards to the Liturgy.

 

[kmktexas]

I think they probably could. As I understand it the current translation was actually rejected by the Vatican but the USCCB (and other English speaking countries) were allowed to use it until a better translation was prepared. If the Vatican determined that the Bishops were not acting appropriately to get a proper translation in place, they could step in administratively.

I look forward to hearing from our cannonist and liturgist experts.

 

[puzzleannie]

kmktexas:

I didn’t know they were re-doing Spanish. The Spanish lecionary is a pretty tight translation to the Latin - which is much easier to do with Spanish than with English. I know the English was ordered to be redone since the last translation was done so poorly.

What, if you know, is the reason given for a Spanish revision?

I have no idea why, simply that the lectionary used for Spanish language Masses in US is not the same as that used in Mexico or other Spanish speaking countries. don’t know if they are going for uniformity, correcting errors, or what. We have missalettes from at least 3 companies floating around with Spanish versions and none of them agree with the lectionary, so I would guess uniformity is the goal.

 

[mtr01]

kmktexas:

I think they probably could. As I understand it the current translation was actually rejected by the Vatican but the USCCB (and other English speaking countries) were allowed to use it until a better translation was prepared. If the Vatican determined that the Bishops were not acting appropriately to get a proper translation in place, they could step in administratively.

I look forward to hearing from our cannonist and liturgist experts.

Word around the campfire is that the new translation will be much more faithful to the Latin. The example I always hear is that the response to “The Lord be with you” will be changed from “and also with you” to the more accurate “and with your spirit” (the Latin being “et cum spiritus tuo”). I, for one, am looking forward to it, and hope we get it soon by whatever means.

 

[kmktexas]

puzzleannie:

I have no idea why, simply that the lectionary used for Spanish language Masses in US is not the same as that used in Mexico or other Spanish speaking countries. don’t know if they are going for uniformity, correcting errors, or what. We have missalettes from at least 3 companies floating around with Spanish versions and none of them agree with the lectionary, so I would guess uniformity is the goal.

You know, I just remembered something. I am in Venezuela and they don’t really have Missalettes here so I don’t know what version they use.

Before I left, Father let me take some of the Missalettes from my home parish in Texas with the Spanish and English text. The notes in the front are very interesting. Parts of the material is from the Mexican lectionary, parts from Spain, and part from Argentina. Other sections seem to be just translations from the USCCB material. That part (the USCCB part) might be the rubrics since I understand that you are supposed to follow the local rubrics regardless of what language you use.

So, it seems that there isn’t a consensus amoung Spanish speaking countries at all. I am not fluent enough in Spanish to tell the difference. I can read that “Y con tu espiritu” seems to match the “and with your spirit”; they use “por mi culpa, por mi culpa, por mi gran culpa” which is closer to the old “through my fault, through my fault, through my most grevious fault” and “en la tierra paz a los hombres que ama el Senor” is different (hopefully closer to the Latin" than the “peace to his people on Earth” that we use in English.