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henrikhank
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How does the Liturgy of the Priestly Society of Saint Josaphat Kuntsevych differ from the Liturgy of the “official” Ukrainian Catholic Church?
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ConstantineTG
Guest
They’re a schismatic, excommunicated group. For me it doesn’t matter, we shouldn’t have anything to do with them. Treat them like heathens and tax collectors.
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I_Thirst
Guest
Treat heathens and tax collectors like I would – or how Jesus would?
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ConstantineTG
Guest
It’s Jesus who said that if they wouldn’t listen to the Church, then treat them as you would heathens and tax collectors.Treat heathens and tax collectors like I would – or how Jesus would?
Of course we should pray for the people in the SSJK. But we shouldn’t support their misguided ministry by even trying to know what they do and how they do it.
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I_Thirst
Guest
Got it.
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henrikhank
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they are not scismatic, they’re just allied with SSPX.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Which means they are schismatic
Seriously, they’ve been excommunicated by His Beatitude Lubomyr, which they appealed to the Vatican who then confirmed the excommunication. While the SSPX “enjoys” irregular canonical status, the SSJK is officially excommunicated.
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Aramis
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They were excommunicated by their major archbishop for schism.
That makes them schismatic.
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Ghosty
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Are SSPX and SSJK really affiliated, or do they just have certain sympathies? If they are directly affiliated then I have very serious concerns about SSPX. 
Peace and God bless!
Peace and God bless!
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CDB1718
Guest
The SSPJ is setup, funded and run by the SSPX. The SSPX are who do their ordinations.Are SSPX and SSJK really affiliated, or do they just have certain sympathies? If they are directly affiliated then I have very serious concerns about SSPX.
Peace and God bless!
The SSPX talk about this on their website laportelatine.org/archives/entret/2006/jenkins/versionanglaise/anglais2006.php
Could you say a word about the communities allied with the Society, in particular the Society of St. Josaphat?
Photo: The ordination of two seminarians of the Society of Saint Josaphat to the diaconate by Bishop Tissier de Mallerais
We have had the great pleasure to have our friends from the Ukraine here in Warsaw for several days - five priests, seven seminarians, five sisters and some twenty faithful made the trip by bus.
They came for the ordination of two of their seminarians, who were ordained to the diaconate by Bishop Tissier de Mallerais.
Truly they will have need of this Spiritus Domini ad robor in the future fight which awaits them. The excommunication pronounced against Father Vasyl was declared null for the reasons of a lack of canonical form, but the process has been restarted. The Cardinal of Kiev had already threatened him with all sorts of punishments if the ordinations were to take place, and the new bishop of Lviv has openly declared that his main task for this coming year will be to eradicate the ‘Lefebvrists’ from his territory.
The faithful in the Ukraine will have a combat to the death in these coming months. We were all very edified by their piety, and I myself was astonished by the resemblance of the atmosphere amongst the seminarians with that which I knew in the seminary - this in spite of the difference of language, nationality and even rite.
The clergy of the Society of St. Josaphat had also treated us to a Solemn Divine Liturgy.
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Ghosty
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As an update the second excommunication has been upheld by the CDF. The only reason it was successfully appealed before was a “lack of canonical form”, which could mean as little as some paperwork wasn’t properly filed. This group is definitely outside the Church, and is wholly condemned by the Ukrainian Catholic Church.
The fact that the SSPX supports this group really puts them in a bad light, IMO. That’s a banned topic for another forum, however.
Peace and God bless!
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CDB1718
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They don’t just support them. They are the SSPJ. It is my opinion that this is one symbolic example of how the SSPX function. It is consistent with their larger work.As an update the second excommunication has been upheld by the CDF. The only reason it was successfully appealed before was a “lack of canonical form”, which could mean as little as some paperwork wasn’t properly filed. This group is definitely outside the Church, and is wholly condemned by the Ukrainian Catholic Church.
The fact that the SSPX supports this group really puts them in a bad light, IMO. That’s a banned topic for another forum, however.
Peace and God bless!
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henrikhank
Guest
so SSPX have valid sacraments but SSPJ hasn’t?
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ConstantineTG
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In the Eastern praxis, there are no such thing as “valid” and “invalid”. If you are outside of the Church, then there are no guarantees that your sacraments are real.
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Aramis
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THey were and are affiliated* in a limited way*.Are SSPX and SSJK really affiliated, or do they just have certain sympathies? If they are directly affiliated then I have very serious concerns about SSPX.
Peace and God bless!
The SSJK lack bishops; SSPX Bishop Williamson has been performing SSJK ordinations, even after their suspension, tho’ I’m not certain if he’s done any since their excommunication.
The SSJK are not a corporate body of/within the SSPX, nor funded by the SSPX, but are receiving support from Bp. Williamson.
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henrikhank
Guest
eastern and western catholicism have the same theology but they may explain it an different.
A Priest I talked with told me that SSPX has valid Sacraments. If the SSJK has invalid Sacaments then I guess SSPX and SSJK are ot allied with eachother.
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Hesychios
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In keeping with the OP, I would like to know what differences there are over the liturgy, belief and praxis between the UGCC and the group referred to here as the SSJK.
I am assuming that they were excommunicated for disobedience. If so, the question is ‘disobedient over what?’
I am assuming that they were excommunicated for disobedience. If so, the question is ‘disobedient over what?’
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ConstantineTG
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No, east and west have the same faith, but different theologies. Remember, theology means the understanding of faith, not the faith itself.
Alliances has nothing to do with validity of Sacraments. For all we know, the SSPX does view the SSJK as having valid Sacraments because they ordained priests for them.
I don’t know why people look at the issue down to just the validity of Sacraments. The Orthodox have valid Sacraments but even from Catholic teaching, we are not to regularly seek Sacraments from them (they allowing us is another discussion). So why do we want to seek Sacraments from other groups who are separated from the Church just because they are valid?
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Aramis
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They were ordered by their synod and its primate to delatinize. They refused.
They refused to use the corrected liturgical books, too.
So… boot.
The SSJK is predicated upon retention of the highly latinized expression of the Ukrainian Use of the Ruthenian Recension.
I’m not certain if they use Latinized vestments or not…
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