Living as "brother and sister"

[Lightbee]

Has anyone had any experience of “living as brother and sister” with their spouse? In particular, how did this affect your marriage and did you have other ways of maintaining your closeness to each other (not talking physical, just the intimacy - mental and emotional - that usually comes with marital relations) - or did you instead somehow try and be less close as a result?

My husband and I are in this situation as I am waiting on the outcome of an annulment from my previous spouse and are looking at possibly a year or two before our marriage can be convalidated. Because of the situation we have discovered we are in, it feels like we have to go backward in our relationship and I’m not sure how we’re supposed to handle it. We’ve only been married for just over a year.

 

[Just_Lurking]

I recommend talking to your priest for advice and suggestions.

 

[puzzleannie]

Has anyone had any experience of “living as brother and sister” with their spouse? In particular, how did this affect your marriage and did you have other ways of maintaining your closeness to each other (not talking physical, just the intimacy - mental and emotional - that usually comes with marital relations) - or did you instead somehow try and be less close as a result?

.

of course we have, like just about any couple who has been married this long. After childbirth, after surgery, when the kids are sick, during necessary business or military travel, after a heart attack, and for any number of reasons married people have to accept there are going to be times when sex is not possible. Fact of life. Not a cause of angst unless the relationship is so shallow sex is the only means of communication and intimacy the couple have developed. Not a cause of a marital breakdown unless one or both parties equates immediate gratification of each and every sexual urge as a duty owed by the other spouse, and considers it a deal breaker if his “needs” are not the top priority.

If you haven’t figured out in the first year or so of marriage that there are literally hundreds of ways expressing love and growing in intimacy outside the marriage bed, better pick up some good books and have your reality meter checked out. My advice to anyone facing this situation unexpectedly is to work, I mean really work as if you were training for the olympics, on finding those other ways to express love and develop intimacy. If you take that time now, NFP will be a piece of cake, as will your declining years when the spirit is will but the flesh is weak.

 

[Sasha]

of course we have, like just about any couple who has been married this long. After childbirth, after surgery, when the kids are sick, during necessary business or military travel, after a heart attack, and for any number of reasons married people have to accept there are going to be times when sex is not possible. Fact of life. Not a cause of angst unless the relationship is so shallow sex is the only means of communication and intimacy the couple have developed. Not a cause of a marital breakdown unless one or both parties equates immediate gratification of each and every sexual urge as a duty owed by the other spouse, and considers it a deal breaker if his “needs” are not the top priority.

If you haven’t figured out in the first year or so of marriage that there are literally hundreds of ways expressing love and growing in intimacy outside the marriage bed, better pick up some good books and have your reality meter checked out. My advice to anyone facing this situation unexpectedly is to work, I mean really work as if you were training for the olympics, on finding those other ways to express love and develop intimacy. If you take that time now, NFP will be a piece of cake, as will your declining years when the spirit is will but the flesh is weak.

IMHO, I don’t think this answer is very helpful because they aren’t in the simple situation of being a married couple who simply decides they shouldn’t have sex at the moment (you mentioned several valid reasons for that). In this case, however, the OP is presumed married to someone else, which means they don’t have the same methods of staying close as a validly married couple does. They are probably trying very hard to not cross the line and also to not lead each other to temptation.

Lightbee, I think you both should be commended for choosing to do the right thing. It’s not an easy road. I don’t have very concrete advice for you. I guess if I were in your shoes, I would probably try to make sure we keep talking to each other, doing things for each other, and pray together (not sure of your husband’s religious beliefs).

God Bless you both!

 

[Deb_H]

Lightbee , yes and there are lots of things you can do to remain in close contact .
My husband and I ( as unmarried people ) looked for projects to do , building things , learning new skills , we worked on his house together and learned to read out loud to eachother , weld , bake , study scripture … Its amazing what these things will do for your understanding of the rolls you each have , he as the head and you as the wife (submitted ) . We found that doing these things together helped us to be close . Also making time to hold hands and look at eachother when we talked of our dreams or feelings … I will be praying for you !

 

[puzzleannie]

IMHO, I don’t think this answer is very helpful because they aren’t in the simple situation of being a married couple who simply decides they shouldn’t have sex at the moment (you mentioned several valid reasons for that). In this case, however, the OP is presumed married to someone else, which means they don’t have the same methods of staying close as a validly married couple does. !

No they cannot show physical affection in other ways, but that is not what I was referring to, actually.
they cannot learn to communicate in deeper ways, sharing thoughts, plans, visions for the future?
they cannot intentionally and daily, together in prayer, offer this trial to God for some good intention?
they cannot pray, read scripture, fast and do penance together?
they cannot do kind and loving acts for each other?
they cannot each carry out the duties of their station in life with love, gratitude, without grumbling and make life easier for each other?
they cannot support each other in this difficult trial?
they cannot find ways to serve God, His church and the poor together?
they cannot explore together what led them into this situation, try to learn all they can about Church teaching on the matter, pray about it and make a resolution for the future?
they cannot read together about heroic saints who have had to give up much more for the sake of the kingdom?

they cannot pursue together and separately pastoral counselling and make plans on what to do if the annulment should not be granted?

 

[gmarie21]

Yes, my husband and I have. First things first, two separate beds, even if one of those beds is an air-mattress. Living as brother and sister is not easy but is definitely rewarding. Even having to backtrack, you’ll see the beauty in it and you’ll be amazed how much more you will not only get to know each other, but will also hear each other. My family thought we were crazy since most of them are remarried without decrees of nullity and could care less about starting the process. And, if you are honest with yourself, and if your love for the Eucharist is great, it will get easier with time. But remember, number one, separate beds (separate bedrooms is preferable, but if that is not possible, separate beds).

As far as the physical, at first it will be difficult (pray for the strength to not sin) but eventually it will get easier and if in the future there are times as puzzleannie has mentioned, you’ll be better prepared than many couples who are shocked at having to abstain for any reason. To make it through this successfully without resentment, you will be amazed at the grace God will pour upon you and your marriage.

You can always message me if you want to talk.

 

[Lightbee]

of course we have, like just about any couple who has been married this long. After childbirth, after surgery, when the kids are sick, during necessary business or military travel, after a heart attack, and for any number of reasons married people have to accept there are going to be times when sex is not possible. Fact of life. Not a cause of angst unless the relationship is so shallow sex is the only means of communication and intimacy the couple have developed. Not a cause of a marital breakdown unless one or both parties equates immediate gratification of each and every sexual urge as a duty owed by the other spouse, and considers it a deal breaker if his “needs” are not the top priority.

If you haven’t figured out in the first year or so of marriage that there are literally hundreds of ways expressing love and growing in intimacy outside the marriage bed, better pick up some good books and have your reality meter checked out. My advice to anyone facing this situation unexpectedly is to work, I mean really work as if you were training for the olympics, on finding those other ways to express love and develop intimacy. If you take that time now, NFP will be a piece of cake, as will your declining years when the spirit is will but the flesh is weak.

This is an extremely narky response and quite uncalled for. I do not need my “reality meter checked out” simply because I seek counsel on a situation that is challenging, from others who have been through it.

And most people in the first year of marriage haven’t got it all worked out. It doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with them, only that one year really isn’t very long in the scheme of things.

If you’re not prepared to provide charitable, helpful advice, please do not reply to the post.

 

[Lightbee]

Lightbee, I think you both should be commended for choosing to do the right thing. It’s not an easy road. I don’t have very concrete advice for you. I guess if I were in your shoes, I would probably try to make sure we keep talking to each other, doing things for each other, and pray together (not sure of your husband’s religious beliefs).

God Bless you both!

Thanks Sasha.

 

[Lightbee]

Lightbee , yes and there are lots of things you can do to remain in close contact .
My husband and I ( as unmarried people ) looked for projects to do , building things , learning new skills , we worked on his house together and learned to read out loud to eachother , weld , bake , study scripture … Its amazing what these things will do for your understanding of the rolls you each have , he as the head and you as the wife (submitted ) . We found that doing these things together helped us to be close . Also making time to hold hands and look at eachother when we talked of our dreams or feelings … I will be praying for you !

Thanks Deb. I like that idea of doing projects together. I might have to suggest that to my husband! Thanks also for the prayers.

 

[Lightbee]

Yes, my husband and I have. First things first, two separate beds, even if one of those beds is an air-mattress. Living as brother and sister is not easy but is definitely rewarding. Even having to backtrack, you’ll see the beauty in it and you’ll be amazed how much more you will not only get to know each other, but will also hear each other. My family thought we were crazy since most of them are remarried without decrees of nullity and could care less about starting the process. And, if you are honest with yourself, and if your love for the Eucharist is great, it will get easier with time. But remember, number one, separate beds (separate bedrooms is preferable, but if that is not possible, separate beds).

As far as the physical, at first it will be difficult (pray for the strength to not sin) but eventually it will get easier and if in the future there are times as puzzleannie has mentioned, you’ll be better prepared than many couples who are shocked at having to abstain for any reason. To make it through this successfully without resentment, you will be amazed at the grace God will pour upon you and your marriage.

You can always message me if you want to talk.

Thanks so much for this open honest answer. I very much appreciate it.

 

[puzzleannie]

If you’re not prepared to provide charitable, helpful advice, please do not reply to the post.

my intent was to provide the greatest charity of all the truth. you already know the truth hurts and you asked for help. if you don’t want it, just disregard it, the intention was to share that yes, I and others have lived through something like this, and yes we found it a path to truer intimacy. If that does not offer comfort, I apologize. also don’t feel obligated to justify, explain or even tell your family or any other nosy people what is going on with you. You are already taking the guidance of the priest that is enough.

 

[Irishmom2]

This is an extremely narky response and quite uncalled for. I do not need my “reality meter checked out” simply because I seek counsel on a situation that is challenging, from others who have been through it.

And most people in the first year of marriage haven’t got it all worked out. It doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with them, only that one year really isn’t very long in the scheme of things.

If you’re not prepared to provide charitable, helpful advice, please do not reply to the post.

I am sorry that you feel this way. I have read many of puzzleannie’s replies and she is always dead on. She has a great wealth of knowledge and I for one always look forward to her responses as she is truthful, helpful and most importantly, giving very Catholic answers to questions posted.

By the way, I agree with her posts concerning your question. Perhaps as you are only married about a year, you think her reply was snarky, but it is not. It is very true that over the years you will have times when you will end up living as brother and sister for various reasons. It will not be the end of your relationship and perhaps will give you a greater appreciation for it.

May God bless you and guide you in your marriage.

 

[Lightbee]

Puzzleannie & Irishmom2 - I feel I need to clarify my original question.

While I appreciate what you’re saying in comparing the situation I’m asking for advice for as the same as a period of abstinence most married people go through, I feel that it is not the same. I’m really not referring to sex in the original post, but to a situation of relationship status which I have tried to describe without being too graphic.

Because of the nature of my situation, it is not merely a period of abstinence with the promise of growing together as a couple as the years go on. But instead it is a period in relationship limbo when I do not know what the outcome will be and do not know if we will be able to fulfil our marriage vows (as they are not considered valid by the church).

It is this period of limbo that I’m referring to - not the lack of physical intimacy. I’m asking for advice on how people who have been in that particular situation have handled it and the effect that situation has had on their relationship.

 

[mtnmikeblue]

Because of the nature of my situation, it is not merely a period of abstinence with the promise of growing together as a couple as the years go on. But instead it is a period in relationship limbo when I do not know what the outcome will be and do not know if we will be able to fulfil our marriage vows (as they are not considered valid by the church).

What do you mean by relationship limbo and not sure what the outcome will be. Are you thinking your current marriage might not make it through this period of waiting on the annulment?

 

[Just_Lurking]

What do you mean by relationship limbo and not sure what the outcome will be. Are you thinking your current marriage might not make it through this period of waiting on the annulment?

There is no guarantee that the annulment will be granted.

 

[Lightbee]

There is no guarantee that the annulment will be granted.

That’s exactly what I meant. I definitely want it to be granted. But wanting may not make it so.

 

[rusty20]

That’s exactly what I meant. I definitely want it to be granted. But wanting may not make it so.

So, you are worried that the ‘marriage’ you are currently in will NEVER be accepted by the Church as valid if your original marriage is not annuled? That is an insanely difficult position to be in. You are with a man that the Church may end up telling you you are not allowed to be with. It seems annulments are pretty easy to come by, so I’m hoping you won’t have problems. I’m in no position to give advice, but I will pray for you

 

[micahmike]

of course we have, like just about any couple who has been married this long. After childbirth, after surgery, when the kids are sick, during necessary business or military travel, after a heart attack, and for any number of reasons married people have to accept there are going to be times when sex is not possible. Fact of life. Not a cause of angst unless the relationship is so shallow sex is the only means of communication and intimacy the couple have developed.

Wow. I also read this as rather uncharitable. Angst is merely a feeling of anxiety or insecurity, and couples who might experience some angst durring times where they might want to share the gift of sexual intercourse with eachother but not be allowed ought not be considered to be in a “relationship so shallow sex is the only means of communication and intimacy the couple have developed.” Not being allowed sex (especially for reasons like those the OP is dealing with, contrasted with your immediate, tangiable reasons of health or distance) is something that I’d consider to be a source of a certain amount of angst for any young married couple.

I find it much less vexing not having sex with my wife because she’s 1500 miles away than I do when we’re together, healthy, and madly in love. The OP is in a difficult situation, and telling her that it’s only difficult because her relationship is shallow is not going to help the matter. Paul says to marry rather than burn with desire, but the OP isn’t given that option. she has a cross to bear and as best I can tell is doing a great job. Most would ridicule her for even trying to be chaste and comply with the teachiongs of the Church. she is on a great path and deserves accolades, not suggestions that her relationship sucks.

 

[micahmike]

Has anyone had any experience of “living as brother and sister” with their spouse? In particular, how did this affect your marriage and did you have other ways of maintaining your closeness to each other (not talking physical, just the intimacy - mental and emotional - that usually comes with marital relations) - or did you instead somehow try and be less close as a result?

My wife an I have gone through periods of sexual abstinence, and while I certainly wouldn’t want to go back, we made it out okay. Sexual intimacy is a wonderful part of a relationship, and without it, you will have to make real efforts to be close to your (hopefully) future husband. Do what makes you work as a couple. Share. Motorcycle rides, Adoration, dogshows, Seinfeld, hsopping trips, whatever works for you, share it with eachother to the extent you’re able. Don’t just be together, but really share the experience.

Your situation is a difficult one and I’m sorry that you find yourself in it. I am praying for you and your (hopefully) husband. Thank you for your witness, I admire you greatly for your efforts to do what’s right!