Living as "brother and sister"

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micahmike said:
Wow. I also read this as rather uncharitable. Angst is merely a feeling of anxiety or insecurity, and couples who might experience some angst durring times where they might want to share the gift of sexual intercourse with eachother but not be allowed ought not be considered to be in a “relationship so shallow sex is the only means of communication and intimacy the couple have developed.” Not being allowed sex (especially for reasons like those the OP is dealing with, contrasted with your immediate, tangiable reasons of health or distance) is something that I’d consider to be a source of a certain amount of angst for any young married couple.

I find it much less vexing not having sex with my wife because she’s 1500 miles away than I do when we’re together, healthy, and madly in love. The OP is in a difficult situation, and telling her that it’s only difficult because her relationship is shallow is not going to help the matter. Paul says to marry rather than burn with desire, but the OP isn’t given that option. she has a cross to bear and as best I can tell is doing a great job. Most would ridicule her for even trying to be chaste and comply with the teachiongs of the Church. she is on a great path and deserves accolades, not suggestions that her relationship sucks.
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To elaborate on what you have said, it isn’t just about sex, to be in this situation requires the parties to avoid things as simple as kissing beyond how you would kiss a brother or sister or aunt or uncle, etc. Not to mention, one has to examine their heart and desire if it even goes in a direction beyond a familial one. Remember, it isn’t just not engaging in relations, it’s denying one’s feelings of physical attraction and affection to the one whom you most desire to share those desires with. As I have suggested to op, it isn’t an easy road but it is possible (I’ve been down this road myself, the internal struggles of the soul for even the simplest thought are something I would not wish on anyone, wondering if you’ve sinned just by desiring to kiss your spouse beyond a peck).
 
Lightbee- I am so sorry to hear about your situation. I lived for a time with my fiance as brother and sister before we were married when we truly began to understand the reasons for chastity and God’s call to marriage the roll of sex in that marriage. Conversion is a process - even if it is a conversion of understanding and not of religion as I am sure you and your dh are finding out. The only advice I have to offer is some I have seen on these forums and that is to study the Holy Family as a model.

With your permission I would like to add a Rosary for you. God bless and good luck to you.

Hey everyone - why is it we can’t anyone without bickering amongst ourselves.
 
rusty20 said:
So, you are worried that the ‘marriage’ you are currently in will NEVER be accepted by the Church as valid if your original marriage is not annuled? That is an insanely difficult position to be in. You are with a man that the Church may end up telling you you are not allowed to be with. It seems annulments are pretty easy to come by, so I’m hoping you won’t have problems. I’m in no position to give advice, but I will pray for you 🙂
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I’m hopeful it will be granted. But I can’t know until it is - and can’t presume that it will be. Thank you for your prayers.
 
micahmike said:
Paul says to marry rather than burn with desire, but the OP isn’t given that option. she has a cross to bear and as best I can tell is doing a great job.
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Thank you. I don’t feel like I’m doing a great job - just struggling through. But I appreciate the encouragement!
 
Sounds like you know the same options as me: Non-physical ways to connect or being less close. I am newly married for the second time. Generally abstinence feels easier to me being less close in all ways, and easier for my dear wife being closer in other ways. We flow between these options trying to avoid anxiety and thrive. I definitely do less well. Prayers and peace.
 
While I was waiting for annulment and con-validation I was advised from several sources not to receive communion, I was not advised to live as brother and sister.

Living in an invalid marriage is an impediment to full communion with the Church but desiring full communion with the Church need not be an impediment to your marriage.

I would advise deal with the potential road block if it comes up and until then spend time in prayer. Not receiving communion does not necessitate the absence of the Eucharist in your life. But if living as brother and sister is putting a major strain on your marriage then I would think it is an unnecessary risk to take…you can potentially damage the marriage and either receive good news or bad news, or you can remove that stress and receive good new or bad news. Those odds seem similar to Paschal’s Wager to me. The good news or bad news will come, but not receiving communion in the mean time could make the good news seem better and if the marriage is damaged in the mean time it could make the good news seem not as good.
 
I heard from somewhere that St. Therese of Lisieux’s parents lived as brother and sister for the first Ten Yrs of their marriage. I don’t know the circumstances of why they decided to do this or even if this is true. But wow, what a sacrifice.

Also, someone posted about just not receiving communion and just carry on as ‘husband and wife’ anyway. I presume you already know that this is a terrible idea. It is encouraging you to live as husband and wife, when in reality, you aren’t husband and wife yet. We should NEVER encourage one another to live in sin and just refrain from communion. When we have to refrain from communion it is because we have divided ourselves from God. If it’s between being separated from God or your (hopefully) husband, I would hope that we’d all choose FOR God.

I can’t imagine what you must be going through. Thankfully, I’ve never had to endure the sacrifice that you are right now. My heart and prayers go out to you and your situation. May our Lord look favorably on this beautiful gift that you are giving him. Also, I think frequent confession might help, unless you cannot receive that sacrament yet, then I would seek frequent counsel from a good Priest.
 
BlazingBolt said:
While I was waiting for annulment and con-validation I was advised from several sources not to receive communion, I was not advised to live as brother and sister.

Living in an invalid marriage is an impediment to full communion with the Church but desiring full communion with the Church need not be an impediment to your marriage.

I would advise deal with the potential road block if it comes up and until then spend time in prayer. Not receiving communion does not necessitate the absence of the Eucharist in your life. But if living as brother and sister is putting a major strain on your marriage then I would think it is an unnecessary risk to take…you can potentially damage the marriage and either receive good news or bad news, or you can remove that stress and receive good new or bad news. Those odds seem similar to Paschal’s Wager to me. The good news or bad news will come, but not receiving communion in the mean time could make the good news seem better and if the marriage is damaged in the mean time it could make the good news seem not as good.
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Blazing Bolt what I don’t think you understand and I am putting this as charitably as possible for the OP (OP please forgive my lack of tact here for purposes of explaining it to this poster - I do give you empathy and understanding) is that there is no marriage here to damage because there is no Sacrament. Once the (and if) the anullment has been granted can there be a Sacrament and can there be a marriage.

Lightbee- I apologize for the brevity of statement.
 
Lightbee, I just want to say thanks for even considering the path of heroic virtue! An awful lot of people don’t even bother, and then those of us who choose to have hardly anyone to look up to for encouragement. I left an abusive marriage and am in the annulment process wondering if I will ever have the chance to experience a graced marriage. Not nearly as up-close-and personal as your struggle, but it gives me hope to see that the hard paths are indeed doable.
 
My husband and I lived as “brother and sister” for a while and it was a beautiful and difficult time … your situation is obviously a lot more different. I’m not saying that you should do this in any way shape or form, but I think if I was in that situation I’d go and do volunteer work in a third world country for a year or at least once I had an idea what the outcome would be and then I would come back and marry my man. It’s not a bad time to do some work for God of course not always practical
 
Do you have children of your hopefully-God-willing-soon-to-be-sacramentally-married-husband?
 
Ovis said:
Sounds like you know the same options as me: Non-physical ways to connect or being less close. I am newly married for the second time. Generally abstinence feels easier to me being less close in all ways, and easier for my dear wife being closer in other ways. We flow between these options trying to avoid anxiety and thrive. I definitely do less well. Prayers and peace.
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Are you also in the position of seeking an annulment for your first marriage? Marriage - even in the best of circumstances - can be difficult in the beginning as you learn to live with each other and be the best you can be.
 
Apagano said:
I heard from somewhere that St. Therese of Lisieux’s parents lived as brother and sister for the first Ten Yrs of their marriage. I don’t know the circumstances of why they decided to do this or even if this is true. But wow, what a sacrifice.
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Wow! I wonder if it is true? But those sorts of stories are also really encouraging, aren’t they!
Apagano said:
I can’t imagine what you must be going through. Thankfully, I’ve never had to endure the sacrifice that you are right now. My heart and prayers go out to you and your situation. May our Lord look favorably on this beautiful gift that you are giving him. Also, I think frequent confession might help, unless you cannot receive that sacrament yet, then I would seek frequent counsel from a good Priest.
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Thank you for your prayers. Unfortunately I won’t be able to be a member of the Catholic church until my annulment situation is sorted, so no sacraments for me. 😦 But we do have a really great priest I can talk to.
 
joandarc2008 said:
Blazing Bolt what I don’t think you understand and I am putting this as charitably as possible for the OP (OP please forgive my lack of tact here for purposes of explaining it to this poster - I do give you empathy and understanding) is that there is no marriage here to damage because there is no Sacrament. Once the (and if) the anullment has been granted can there be a Sacrament and can there be a marriage.

Lightbee- I apologize for the brevity of statement.
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Joandarc and Blazing Bolt - I think you both bring out something really important points here. While joandarc is quite right that there is no valid marriage here, Blazing Bolt has made an equally good point that there is a relationship here which can certainly be affected by the actions we do or don’t take.

I must confess that I am quite confused about how to look after the relationship as well as possible, without crossing the borders into damaging our potential future sacramental marriage. Part of me thinks we should have a relationship as if we were engaged and expecting to be married, and therefore seeking to grow our relationship. And another part thinks that we should somehow put more of a barrier between us, as we don’t know what the outcome will be. But then I think that if we do that, it could damage our future marriage… :confused:
 
EvelynEVF said:
Lightbee, I just want to say thanks for even considering the path of heroic virtue! An awful lot of people don’t even bother, and then those of us who choose to have hardly anyone to look up to for encouragement. I left an abusive marriage and am in the annulment process wondering if I will ever have the chance to experience a graced marriage. Not nearly as up-close-and personal as your struggle, but it gives me hope to see that the hard paths are indeed doable.
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I so feel for you going through the annulment process now. It is definitely a heart-wrenching thing to go through. I must admit I honestly don’t know if I would have had the strength to start on the process if it wasn’t for my current husband (not that there was a possibility before, because I wasn’t Catholic). I admire you for doing this now. I’ll pray for you. You might also want to check out the “Annulments” thread for more support on the journey.
 
ljvt said:
My husband and I lived as “brother and sister” for a while and it was a beautiful and difficult time … your situation is obviously a lot more different. I’m not saying that you should do this in any way shape or form, but I think if I was in that situation I’d go and do volunteer work in a third world country for a year or at least once I had an idea what the outcome would be and then I would come back and marry my man. It’s not a bad time to do some work for God of course not always practical
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I love that idea!!! Unfortunately its not an option for me as I have kids, but wouldn’t it be an awesome way to get through it!
 
joandarc2008 said:
Do you have children of your hopefully-God-willing-soon-to-be-sacramentally-married-husband?
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No, but I have 2 children from my previous marriage who live with us every second week (and any other time I can get them!). I’m very conscious that any changes we make to our marriage (e.g. if we were to live apart for a while) could be very detrimental to the kids stability and to the relationship with their step-father which is still forming.
 
To the OP, you are in a really difficult situation, and my heart goes out to you. What I understand you to be asking is “How do we sustain our relationship during this time of waiting when the outcome of the annulment process is uncertain?” I recommend lots of prayer, together, asking God for his love and strength.

To mtnmikeblue, I believe the OP is saying that an annulment of her earlier marriage is not guarenteed. What she and her husband are facing is the possibility that her previous marriage is still valid and that she and her current husband must separate or else they would be living in adultery. She is not saying that their relationship can’t take the difficulty of waiting.
 
I have a really inspiring book by “Clare McAuley” called “Whom God Hath Not Joined” (Sheed & Ward). She was not granted an annulment of her first marriage and struggled with what to do since she had 3 children with the second ‘husband’. They were eventually allowed to continue to live together as a family receiving the sacraments with a brother-sister vow. This is a link to a 1961 Time magazine article describing the book time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,897688,00.html
There are several things in the book which you could find helpful in your situation, so if you can get hold of a copy, I’d recommend you read it.
I’ll be praying for you and your family. May God bless you in your every day struggles to live His Will.
 
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