Living in Mortal Sin

[puzzleannie]

I haven’t been to confession in a very long time because of this … very long meaning years.

I don’t want “partial absolution” - clean the slate except for that one big one at the top of the list - it’s all or nothing.

Thoughts?

there is no such think as partial absolution. If someone goes to confession, and knowingly withholds a mortal sin, not only are they not absolved of any sin, they have also committed another mortal sin, sacrilege and lying.

A person in the (I will assume for the sake of discussion hypothetical) situation described in OP has placed his own conscience, experience, reasoning ability and judgement over that of the Church. The spiritual and moral issue involved is rooted in humility, obedience and submission to the authority of Jesus Christ, which is mediated on earth through the Church. Until that issue is resolved, through prayer, study, immersion in the scriptues, the problem of the actual sin, whatever it was, cannot be fruitfully addressed. This person would be well advised to seek out spiritual direction at once to avoid the very real danger of losing his immortal soul for all eternity.

 

[Jay2]

You want to see proof of the afterlife yourself, not just get told about it by some prelate or even a scientist. The fact that you’re looking for it implies the possibility that it exists. You certainly can’t prove that it doesn’t exist either. Who do you trust? Yourself? Well that hasn’t worked out to well. I mean look at yourself. You have a finite number of heartbeats and you’re wasting precious time plunking a keyboard in an Internet discussion room. The clock’s ticking on your life, pal. 80 turns around the rock and you’re gone. What the heck are you doing here? Do you trust the Pope? Likely not as he’s not the scientist. Which scientist do you believe has the answer? Is that the one that says the Earth is cooking with global warming or the one that is equally convincing that the Earth is just being its whacky self?

Where do you put your faith? And how do you find faith when what you are looking for is its exact opposite…certainty?

I know I’ve got 80 revs… (probably less 'cause I smoke & drink too). You know what? Those 80 turns are MINE - to do with what I choose. If it pisses off the Supreme Being so be it - I’m going to have fun while I’m here.
As many have said here I’ll have eternity to pay it off - so what’s goofing off for 80 in comparison?

I cannot comprehend eternity… what is eternity? I have no reference to it. You are alive, you are dead. What matters to me is what you’ve left behind… be it children, things you’ve done, objects you’ve invented, people you’ve helped.

The clock’s ticking on your life, pal. 80 turns around the rock and you’re gone. What the heck are you doing here?

Same question right back at you.

I’m here trying to get a handle on something I’ve never understood. How people can blindly follow something… alter their existance to comply, spend their 80 turns in compliance… with NO physical evidence or guarantee of a payoff! (“Heaven”)

And no, I don’t trust the Pope - he’s a man same as you & me. Frankly I don’t trust any man who can willingly give up women and tailor his life around stories in a book.

“Because the Bible/God/Jesus said so” doesn’t cut it. I want proof. Why does Catholism have intrinsic guilt built into ANY pleasure?? Why did the Church KILL thousands of people with armed troops because “they didn’t assimilate”, or “questioned the Book”…
History is written by the winner - always remember that.

 

[dylanschrader]

I know I’ve got 80 revs… (probably less 'cause I smoke & drink too). You know what? Those 80 turns are MINE - to do with what I choose. If it pisses off the Supreme Being so be it - I’m going to have fun while I’m here.
As many have said here I’ll have eternity to pay it off - so what’s goofing off for 80 in comparison?

I cannot comprehend eternity… what is eternity? I have no reference to it. You are alive, you are dead. What matters to me is what you’ve left behind… be it children, things you’ve done, objects you’ve invented, people you’ve helped.

Same question right back at you.

I’m here trying to get a handle on something I’ve never understood. How people can blindly follow something… alter their existance to comply, spend their 80 turns in compliance… with NO physical evidence or guarantee of a payoff! (“Heaven”)

And no, I don’t trust the Pope - he’s a man same as you & me. Frankly I don’t trust any man who can willingly give up women and tailor his life around stories in a book.

“Because the Bible/God/Jesus said so” doesn’t cut it. I want proof. Why does Catholism have intrinsic guilt built into ANY pleasure?? Why did the Church KILL thousands of people with armed troops because “they didn’t assimilate”, or “questioned the Book”…
History is written by the winner - always remember that.

There is rational evidence sufficient to know that there is a God and that human beings have an immortal soul. Catholicism is not a Fideistic religion.

I wouldn’t believe in God if I didn’t have some good reasons to, and I certainly don’t believe in the Bible on its own authority.

What is it that you’re looking to get out of this discussion? (I hope that didn’t sound too confrontational. I’m just curious because it seems like there are a lot of different approaches going on here. )

 

[Jay2]

I’m looking for a reasonable explanation of how billions can alter their lives to follow an intangible.

I’m not a “Sheeple”… I won’t follow the herd up the ramp.

I don’t question the fact there is a God - anyone who’s seen the night sky, or walked, camped, and lived in the wilderness can’t deny this… something incredible had to build this!

I’m being confrontational because the replies I get from here & my “Spiritual Leader” are the standard cr*p I lived through as a child… Because I said so… Because the “Book” says so… You’re not worthy to question…just follow…

My wife has handled our obligation to the Church to educate our children in the Faith. My participation has been taxi-driver… not much more.
My oldest is soon to be confirmed… Her desire was that all attending this event be absolved and have gone to confession. I cannot be “cleansed” - I’ve willingly broken the “rules” and have no desire to rectify this…
But my child wants me attend her ceremony in purity. I’d take a (another) bullet for my daughter, or throw myself on a grenade - but I cannot attend her confirmation with an absolved soul… because of the choice I made, and the rules within the Church that say that what I’ve done is wrong.

This is my “rub”…the reason I’ve been attending classes, asking questions.

 

[LilyM]

“Because the Bible/God/Jesus said so” doesn’t cut it. I want proof. Why does Catholism have intrinsic guilt built into ANY pleasure?? Why did the Church KILL thousands of people with armed troops because “they didn’t assimilate”, or “questioned the Book”…
History is written by the winner - always remember that.

Pleasure is fine - I get lots of pleasure out of my computer, my music and art, the food I eat, the occasional flutter on the racetrack or splurge on a $2 lottery ticket … even the drugs I consume - those being limited to alcohol and caffeine, and the odd bit of paracetamol or ibuprofen of course

The church doesn’t condemn any of these pleasures at all. She simply recognises, which is incredibly sensible from a human standpoint, that these can be and often are, taken to harmful excesses. Harmful to society or to one’s relationships or psyche if not actually physically harmful.

We can see that with contraception - we’re failing to reproduce as a society at a level where we replace ourselves. This will have massive impacts in a decade or two when the current large generation of baby boomers retires, needs medical care, needs taxpayers to help support them in their retirement, needs a labour force to provide services for them.

These things simply will not be there because so many potential workers, service providers and taxpayers have been aborted and contracepted away. If you study history and look at the Black Death of the Middle Ages, which was another time the population of the Western world dropped below replacement level, the social impacts were huge.

 

[HailMary]

I’m being confrontational because the replies I get from here & my “Spiritual Leader” are the standard cr*p I lived through as a child… Because I said so… Because the “Book” says so… You’re not worthy to question…just follow…

If you believe something without being convicted, you do not have real faith. Thats why our Holy Father said faith and reason go hand in hand. With hard work, EVERY thing I have ever asked or inquired about, has been answered satisfactorily and appeased my mind. If there is something I cannot accept, I don’t think something is wrong with the Church, but rather something with me.

God bless

 

[larry85704]

Let me say, and it is true, that my wife and I used NFP for a number of years when we were first married. We were married young and NFP was a sacrifice, because we really liked one another. So if you want to tell me about the theology of the body, fine, but I’ve heard it, I agree with it.

What I do not agree with is the legalistic notion of the Church that often is presented on the internet. We forget about our church, the one down the street that we go to on Sunday. What is the Catholic Church, the community of believers that go to a physical building, or a community of people on the internet. Both strive to follow the same rules and love the same God.

Once upon a time my daughter came to me and said she wanted to go to Communion. She was too young. I asked my pastor if she could go and he said yes, but she would have to attend the Holy Communion classes. Which she did. When she was going to the classes the director of religious education came up to me and made a big fuss because my daughter was going to Communion without her approval. I told her I’d talked to the pastor and really didn’t care what she thought. She was angry. She got fired, the pastor didn’t like her not respecting his authority.

Now I am not saying who was right but I will go so far as to say that churches need to work together, especially inside the church community. Often they don’t, and that is sad. What I would urge anybody that feels they may have committed a sin to do is talk to your priest. Not necessarily in confession either.

My understanding of sin is:

1. It is a decision that compromises your relationship with God.
2. It may be action, or inaction.
3. A mortal sin severs your relationship with God. Do you think God stops loving you? No, you stop loving God. That is a mortal sin. Not all that easy for most good Christian people.
4. You are aware it is a sin when you do it and can freely choose to do it or not.
5. More technical stuff I am not aware of.

In my experience, you can commit an act that is sinful according to the teachings of the Church and not have it be sinful for you. You must truly believe that you are doing the right thing.

Our Church teaches what is the best choice in life. And yes, God is harsh, He did strike down the sinners in Acts. Sometimes I wish He would do more of it today, especially to the people that commit the sins I don’t like. So what God do you want, the God that strikes down the sinner or the one that welcomes him back and has a feast to celebrate his return?

 

[dylanschrader]

Just in case you weren’t aware of this, the Church does not require that you have your vasectomy reversed.

All that is necessary for a good confession is that you wish you had not done it. That probably sounds tough, and it can be tough to have contrition. I definitely know that. What happens is that when we commit a very serious sin, we lose our supernatural life and begin living again on the natural level. Fortunately, God will give us the grace to be sorry for our sins if we ask him.

It is hard because it means we have to change. Since original sin, man has been hiding from God. Why? There’s no good reason to fear God in that way.

If there is a God, then for him to have created everything in creation, he has to be outside of creation. Obviously, he couldn’t have created himself. He also can’t be lacking anything in creation since it had to come from him. He couldn’t give what he didn’t have.

What’s the point? The point is that as we look at our own lives, recognizing that God who is infinitely happy in himself and who has no need of us whatsoever freely chose to create us out of absolutely nothing to make us into something. What could his motivation be? It can’t be a motivation in the usual sense since God has nothing to gain in creating us. The only reason is that he loves us and wanted us to enjoy existence.

There’s no reason we should be afraid of him, but all of us are. It’s really childish but so easy.

 

[Jay2]

These things simply will not be there because so many potential workers, service providers and taxpayers have been aborted and contracepted away. If you study history and look at the Black Death of the Middle Ages, which was another time the population of the Western world dropped below replacement level, the social impacts were huge.

Yup, there’s always a need for “ditch diggers” and “unskilled worker-bees”… Long live the royalty.
No…this was “Culling of the herd”. Reduction of the draw on the system - Circle of Life - supply & demand.
Humans have altered the system of natural selection. Due to medical and physical influence we are outliving the system designed to support us… Socially and Physically.

Women who cannot conceive via normal intercourse are opting for artificial means… and having litters. Not 1, twins, but SIX+ babies
Rather than accepting the fact they can’t conceive, they turn to artificial means to satisfy their perceived “God given right to be a mother”…“I HAVE TO HAVE A BABY…” the Church seems to wholeheartedly support this act…pump out those babies… keep those Uterus’s filled!

On the flip-side of this I’m condemned because I took conscience means to prevent a pregnancy…I did not kill or abort an existing life, I just took means to prevent one from occurring… within an already established spousal situation. And I’m the bad guy.
.

 

[LilyM]

Due to medical and physical influence we are outliving the system designed to support us… Socially and Physically.

Well if the young portion of the population were higher that wouldn’t be the case now, would it? They’d be helping in all kinds of ways to support their elders (not just the rich people, I mean their own parents and grandparents) Kinda makes my point.

Women who cannot conceive via normal intercourse are opting for artificial means… and having litters. Not 1, twins, but SIX+ babies
Rather than accepting the fact they can’t conceive, they turn to artificial means to satisfy their perceived “God given right to be a mother”…“I HAVE TO HAVE A BABY…” the Church seems to wholeheartedly support this act…pump out those babies… keep those Uterus’s filled!

Wrong wrong wrong. The church is every bit as much against most artificial means of CONception (IVF and so on) as they are against artificial means of CONTRAception. For the same reasons - divorces sex utterly from its procreative function which, while not the only purpose, is too darn important for we ignorant creatures to mess with.

On the flip-side of this I’m condemned because I took conscience means to prevent a pregnancy…I did not kill or abort an existing life, I just took means to prevent one from occurring… within an already established spousal situation. And I’m the bad guy.
.

You played God. Just as someone who uses IVF plays God. He created your reproductive organs, you certainly didn’t. Thus it is for him and him alone to decide whether or not you should be permanently sterile.

Ever consider adopting any children that you can’t afford out to those couples who so desperately want them and thus solving two problems while still respecting God’s part in His creation?

Or better still - simply use NFP! Just as effective, when used properly (and most other methods certainly aren’t, and fail pretty much as often). My sister who is a GP used it for years, not because of any religious conviction but because she’s seen awful physical and emotional effects resulting from other methods.

 

[Katie1723]

Yup, there’s always a need for “ditch diggers” and “unskilled worker-bees”… Long live the royalty.
No…this was “Culling of the herd”. Reduction of the draw on the system - Circle of Life - supply & demand.
Humans have altered the system of natural selection. Due to medical and physical influence we are outliving the system designed to support us… Socially and Physically.

Women who cannot conceive via normal intercourse are opting for artificial means… and having litters. Not 1, twins, but SIX+ babies
Rather than accepting the fact they can’t conceive, they turn to artificial means to satisfy their perceived “God given right to be a mother”…“I HAVE TO HAVE A BABY…” the Church seems to wholeheartedly support this act…pump out those babies… keep those Uterus’s filled!

On the flip-side of this I’m condemned because I took conscience means to prevent a pregnancy…I did not kill or abort an existing life, I just took means to prevent one from occurring… within an already established spousal situation. And I’m the bad guy.
.

You sound really really ticked off. But I sort of understand where you are coming from. Lots of people here say what they think someone wants to hear or the “correct Catholic response”, but then really do something else. You are being honest and to me that is admirable. It might not be the “correct Catholic response” but then again being honest sometimes means going against the grain.
Kathy

 

[Island_Oak]

I know I’ve got 80 revs… (probably less 'cause I smoke & drink too). You know what? Those 80 turns are MINE - to do with what I choose. If it pisses off the Supreme Being so be it - I’m going to have fun while I’m here.
As many have said here I’ll have eternity to pay it off - so what’s goofing off for 80 in comparison?

I’m here trying to get a handle on something I’ve never understood. How people can blindly follow something… alter their existance to comply, spend their 80 turns in compliance… with NO physical evidence or guarantee of a payoff! (“Heaven”)

And no, I don’t trust the Pope - he’s a man same as you & me.

Frankly I don’t trust any man who can willingly give up women and tailor his life around stories in a book.

“Because the Bible/God/Jesus said so” doesn’t cut it. I want proof. Why does Catholism have intrinsic guilt built into ANY pleasure?? Why did the Church KILL thousands of people with armed troops because “they didn’t assimilate”, or “questioned the Book”…
History is written by the winner - always remember that.

I’m looking for a reasonable explanation of how billions can alter their lives to follow an intangible.

I’m not a “Sheeple”… I won’t follow the herd up the ramp.

I don’t question the fact there is a God - anyone who’s seen the night sky, or walked, camped, and lived in the wilderness can’t deny this… something incredible had to build this!

I’m being confrontational because the replies I get from here & my “Spiritual Leader” are the standard cr*p I lived through as a child… Because I said so… Because the “Book” says so… You’re not worthy to question…just follow…

The comments above give the impression of a petulant, flip teenager being forced into CCD class by his mom rather than a mature man who is interested in joining his wife and taking on the mature task of studying the Catholic faith with the intellectual rigor and sophistication required to fully comprehend its teachings, mysteries, subtleties, sacraments, spirituality and morality. This is no picnic and there are not easy answers to profound questions. This will take all your intellectual fitness, flexibility, personal honesty and humility as well as an open, willing heart. Do you possess these qualities or are you just looking for a verbal smack-down?!

As for your “sin,” I think you have less of an issue than you imagine. A vasectomy is a procedure forbidden by the Catholic Church for its members, who comply not out of blindness but with understanding, acceptance and self-discipline. I’m guessing this does not include you at the time of your surgery. Without knowledge of the sinfulness of an act or the intent to commit that act despite knowledge of its sinfulness, you have not committed a mortal sin. Even had you undergone the surgery knowingly, repented the sin and sought absolution from the Church, you are not required to undergo a reversal surgery.

You need more study, reflection, prayer. Be willing to be still and silent for a while, to seek, listen, read and really hear and feel the truth that supports our faith. No one here follows blindly. We have discerned a truth and try, often in very flawed ways, to conform our lives to it. We all fall short, but understand it is a journey and commitment which will last an entire lifetime.

 

[jmcrae]

I know I’ve got 80 revs… (probably less 'cause I smoke & drink too). You know what? Those 80 turns are MINE - to do with what I choose. If it pisses off the Supreme Being so be it - I’m going to have fun while I’m here.
As many have said here I’ll have eternity to pay it off - so what’s goofing off for 80 in comparison?

There’s a really good book you need to read - it’s The Great Divorce, by C. S. Lewis. (don’t worry - he’s Protestant. But it’s a really good book about people who say, “So what if it pisses off the Supreme Being?” I think you’ll really like the characters in the story.

I cannot comprehend eternity… what is eternity? I have no reference to it.

“Eternity” is exactly like “now,” except without “in a minute,” and without “a minute ago.” It’s a present that has no past or future. (More or less.)

 

[mrs_abbott]

“Eternity” is exactly like “now,” except without “in a minute,” and without “a minute ago.” It’s a present that has no past or future. (More or less.)

An existence without time . . . ah, yes . . . I am anxiously awaiting the moment that arrives in my life!

 

[DanteAlighieri]

There’s a really good book you need to read - it’s The Great Divorce, by C. S. Lewis. (don’t worry - he’s Protestant. But it’s a really good book about people who say, “So what if it pisses off the Supreme Being?” I think you’ll really like the characters in the story.

A truly outstanding book! It portrays the mindsets of several different people who feel that they did the “best they could” given their circumstances, and why should they change? It really spoke to me. It also gives a profound image of the afterlife that really makes me think about the nature of Divine Inspiration.

Even my namesake, Dante Alighieri, in medieval times, wrote that the underlying component of Christian life is love, not willfull individuality, and certainly not blind adherence.

Peace,
Dante

 

[blessedtoo]

The comments above give the impression of a petulant, flip teenager being forced into CCD class by his mom rather than a mature man who is interested in joining his wife and taking on the mature task of studying the Catholic faith with the intellectual rigor and sophistication required to fully comprehend its teachings, mysteries, subtleties, sacraments, spirituality and morality.

You took the words right out of my mouth! Except I was going to say a “petulant” adolescent having a tantrum!

 

[nomolos]

Beside it stopping the creation of life, in the old testament it mention something about, cutting or removing your genitals as abomination, and there is no place for people such as these in Heaven. Do the transexuals know this, really sins can be forgiven and you can stop, stealing, killing, sexual inmorality, but this is permanent.
We will only know when the time comes, but better safe than sorry.

 

[dulcissima]

You know, you can still go to confession even with imperfect contrition. All that is necessary is that you feel sorry for having done it because you fear damnation. Surely if you knew that doing that would cause you to spend eternity in HELL, permanently separated not only from those whom you love, but also Love itself, you would be sorry. Even with imperfect contrition, you can still receive absolution.

Ideally it would be best if you understood that this really does offend God and were sorry for that, but hopefully you are at least sorry for the consequence of your sin.

I think if you go to confession and put yourself back into that state of grace and decide to open your heart to trying to understand and obey God’s will, you will be in a much better position to actually making some progress in that regard. I say good for your daughter for giving you that nudge.

 

[apricot_yogurt]

I find it strange that someone who doesn’t believe in an after life should cut themselves off from further children in this way-surely you would want to leave this world with something of yourself left behind?
God will not stop you from entering heaven-you stop yourself- if by your actions you do not believe in a living, loving God and you do not trust in God, so why would you want to spend eternity with Him?
If you trust in God, you will see that He made you for a reason-he didn’t screw up when he made you fertile-would you cut your arm off because you kept building magnificent structures?, or would you remove part of your brain because you just can’t stop writing beautiful poetry?
Having children can be scarey-I am having my fifth soon-I don’t not feel that fear that accompanies pregnancy and birth and child raising-(this is a planned baby BTW,) but God has never let me down before, and I see no reason why he would again.

 

[fix]

In my experience, you can commit an act that is sinful according to the teachings of the Church and not have it be sinful for you. You must truly believe that you are doing the right thing.

The teachings of the Church are backed up by Christ. The Church and Christ cannot be separated. See, it is not about a juvenile rules-based mentality. It is about love of God. We keep the “rules” because we love God.

For us to claim to be faithful, yet reject the authority of the Church to bind our conscience would seem to be a grave contradiction.