Living together

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Kusnierek

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I’m sure this is a common question, but my daughter who is 26 wants to move in with her boyfriend. Of course she informed me and my responce was that she is an adult and can make her own decissions but that I wasn’t happy about the situation. I drew a blank and need some help.

My questions is what are some good responces to her that would discourage her from going thru with her plans.
 
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Kusnierek:
I’m sure this is a common question, but my daughter who is 26 wants to move in with her boyfriend. Of course she informed me and my responce was that she is an adult and can make her own decissions but that I wasn’t happy about the situation. I drew a blank and need some help.

My questions is what are some good responces to her that would discourage her from going thru with her plans.
Since I’m not a parent, I would not know. But, I would post this in the Family Life Forum. It would most likely get some better responses there. Over here in the Water Cooler, we’re all just a bit :whacky:
forums.catholic-questions.org/forumdisplay.php?f=12
That is the link to the Family Life Subforum. Sorry I cannot offer any other advice. But I will pray for you and your daughter.
 
If your daughter plans to marry the “love of her life”, she had better not move in with him. Have her check out the statistics on this and consider the facts. Then IF they do marry, the chances of them staying together are less than those who did not live together before marriage. If she becomes pregnant, and that certainly is a great possibility, she should consider the ramifications of the situation. No marriage, he or she can leave any time. No committment means either one are free to do what they wish.

I know quite a lot about this. I have 2 step-daughters in the un-married but living together situation. One has a child of her first live-in, she is with #2 or #3, (we are not sure). He cheats on her, she left him and now went back because she “loves” him. She is trying to get him to marry her so he won’t cheat anymore. ???
The other daughter had one child by a live- in, she is with another and has a child by him. This live-in-boy friend refuses to marry her because “he doesn’t believe in marriage”. Mean-while she is jealous of the relatives who walk down the aisle in the beautiful white wedding gown. No one know how to introduce the live-in-guys. It is embarrasing to say, “this is our daughter and her boy friend and this is their child”.

You might consider having her call Dr. Laura and asking her if living together before marriage is a good idea.

Hope this helps.

Love and peace,

Mom of 5
 
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Kusnierek:
I’m sure this is a common question, but my daughter who is 26 wants to move in with her boyfriend. Of course she informed me and my responce was that she is an adult and can make her own decissions but that I wasn’t happy about the situation. I drew a blank and need some help.

My questions is what are some good responces to her that would discourage her from going thru with her plans.
Code:
 She may be an adult physically but emotionally I have doubts.    
 Any girl that would move in with a guy is simply in a transient relationship. He has all the advantages of marriage without any of the commitments and she has all the duties and responsibilities as if married. 
 Ok, let us look at the facts. Moving in means no commitment to a relationship. It only means a sharing of costs, a roof to exist under and a sharing of a bed. He usually gets a cook, lover, housekeeper, nursemaid and for what in return? Does that sound like a stable and committed relationship? Nope, a prostitute does some of the same without asking for anything long term?
 My simple advice would be to tell her that it is her choice to do as she pleases. It is your choice not to treat him any different that a live in boyfriend and you will not contribute later to any wedding costs since that would be after the fact and not as a prelude. It would not be a celebration but a confirmation to that which has already been a pseudo marriage.
 Sorry for being so blunt and perhaps harsh but that is how I see it and I have examples of two friends who went down that same path. Both now have children and fathers who do not even pay child support yet both men have nice cars and clothes while their children live with support from welfare. 
 Adult behavior. Nope, I think not. Children play, adults commit.
Lynn-D
 
More reasons why people should not cohabitate.

Out of Wedlock Births and Single-Parent Families
• Unmarried mothers and children from unmarried homes are likely to be in poverty or near the poverty level for an extended period of time.36

• Women raising children out of wedlock are less likely to find a marriageable mate than single, childless women.37

• Children of single parents are more likely to engage in high-risk relationships and high-risk behaviors at an earlier age, than children raised by a married mother and father.38

Cohabitating Couples and Unmarried Families

• Greater rates of unhappiness, dissatisfaction, and dysfunctional relationship behavior (domestic abuse, unfaithfulness, high amounts of conflict) exist in cohabiting relationships.39

• Couples living together before marriage have a greater rate of divorce than those who did not live together.40

• Over one-third of all cohabiting relationships involve kids. These children are at greater risk to be physically and/or sexually abused, and they are more likely to repeat the high risk relationship behaviors of their parent(s).41

Research has shown that both divorce and unmarried childbearing decrease the economic well being of both children and mothers. Only 9% of children under six in two-parent households are poor, while 47% of those living in single-mother households live in poverty.42 More specifically, 45% of children raised by divorced mothers and 69% raised by never-married mothers live in or near poverty.43 One analysis found that nearly 80% of child poverty occurs in broken or never-formed families, and it concludes that more marriages could reduce poverty by as much as 25%.44

When compared to children in two-parent households, evidence reveals that children in one-parent households are affected in additional negative ways.
The benefits of marriage for both men and women include:

· lower mortality rates,

· lower rates of chronic illnesses or disabilities,

· higher ratings of one’s own health,

· less depression, anxiety and suicide,

· less problem drinking and substance abuse,

· greater financial well-being, and

· lower rates of intimate partner violence.57

Another advantage of marriage is that it can also result in higher levels of paternal involvement with the family and assistance with childcare responsibilities.58

It is important to note that these superior outcomes do not accompany cohabitation. Cohabiting relationships are far less stable than marriages. Cohabiters experience less emotional and financial success and higher rates of domestic violence. As noted before, marriages following cohabitation are more likely to end in divorce than those not preceded by cohabitation.59 Over one-third of cohabiting relationships involve kids,60 and children living with cohabiting couples have more behavior problems and lower academic performance than children in married-couple families.61

Even though marriage offers benefits that cohabitation does not, two-thirds of American teens (67%) believe that it is better to live with someone prior to marriage to determine compatibility.62 The majority of teens (59%) also expect to cohabit themselves.63

Certain relationship behaviors of some young people typically do not lead to lifelong commitment.

· Currently, 40% of young women have “hooked up” (engaged in a physical encounter with a male with no commitment attached).64

· The earlier and more frequently teens engage in sexual activities, the more prone they are to acquire an STD, get pregnant, get raped or abused, and use drugs and alcohol. They are also less likely to marry and more prone to future infidelity and divorce.65

· The higher the frequency of relationship break-ups, the greater chances of susceptibility to divorce in the future.66
More information available:familyministries.org/www.inthespiritofcana.org/appendix_O.htm
 
you might just present the basic facts of the situation. A woman who lives with a man without benefit of marriage is first of all demonstrating her low self esteem and has reduced herself to an object to satisfy one man’s sexual urges in a manner most convenient to himself. Such a man does not and cannot by definition have much regard for her as a person, or have much interest in a relationship on any other level.

Such a woman condones and lives her life by the secular values that reject family and children as a value, reject women’s roles, lives, biology and feminitity as valuable in and of themselves, and force women into conformity with the sexually-driven anti-morality of the consumer culture.

Such a woman virtually guarantees that both she and the man (I would not call such a man a gentleman) involved diminish or destroy their capability to form a strong lasting marriage bond, because they have diminished their ability for self-control and self-denial that is critical for creating a relationship that depends on placing the good of the other ahead of the good of oneself.

Such a woman increases her chances of spending a life in poverty because she increases her chances of out-of-wedlock children, which is a marker for poverty in women, and in their children. Since such a couple is almost certainly using artificial birth control, or God forbid abortion to delay or prevent children, she is exposing herself to all the physical and psychological damage these methods have been proven to cause.

She is moreover entering into a sexual relationship with someone who almost certainly has been or will be promiscuous, thereby assuring that she will be exposed to STD’s particulary HPV which is behind the astronomical rise in reproductive cancers of women.
 
My now-deceased father-in-law had a good expression from the man’s point of view: why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free.

My observation is that the girl ends up doing the cooking, cleaning and laundry. The guy gets sex any time he wants it. Now that’s a free cow if I ever did see one.

I have two kids (one guy one girl) who live with a mate. I hate it. No one listened to me. I wear beige and keep my mouth shut. I pray they will get married.
 
It will be difficult to change your daughter’s view on sex and marriage at this stage. But, not impossible. Why is it that she wants to live with him? What does she say is the reason?

I second the pureloveclub.com website and also get Jason Evert’s and Mary Beth Bonacci’s books on chastity.

She is likely already in a sexual relationship with him, and so is also likely using contraception. You can get info at www.omsoul.com on why this is immoral.

For information on cohabitation and subsequent divorce/problems you can go to the Rutgers University website, google Rutger’s Marriage Project-- they have done a very thorough study on marriage, cohabitation, etc.

A couple of marriage prep books are available that are really good-- such as Three To Get Married by Fulton Sheen, For Better Forever by Greg Popcak.

Also, call your diocesan Office Of Family Life, their marriage prep office will also likely have resources on cohabitation.
 
Why do you think that more and more people are living together now? I read about this question in a Catholic newspaper. But doesn’t the Catholic Church allow people who were married to divorce and get an annulment a lot more now than before? For example, there is a Senator from Massachusetts, Edward M. Kennedy, who it was rumored was having a lot of outside affairs. One of his girl friends died in a car accident when he was driving over a bridge and he let her stay there and drown in the water. Still, the Church lets him leave his first wife and marry another one, even though the first wife needed some help with her alcohol problem because she could not cope with all the problems her husband was causing her. I thought it was supposed to be marriage for better or for worse, but I guess if you are a famous Catholic Irishman you can get remarried even if people think you have been publicly involved in some problems with other women.
But why should people go through all that hassle and expense of getting “married” if it turns out that so many of these “marriages” have been found to be null and void by the Catholic Church for no good apparent reason. What would be the difference between living together and living in a null and void marriage? In either case you are not married in the eyes of the Catholic Church, but in the case of marriage, you have to spend a lot of money and waste time for the ceremony, but you find out later on after several years of marriage, that your spouse has been cheating on you and that you really weren’t married in the first place. This is not an isolated case since I read somewhere that there are a lot of annulments these days and that Catholics get divorced and annulled in just about the same percentages as do Protestants and other people. And I think it was said in the article that most Catholic marriages that are tested by a Catholic tribunal are found to be null and void anyway.
 
Dear Kirane,
In all kindness, I suggest that you read one book for every post you write.
 
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Kirane:
Why do you think that more and more people are living together now?
Because more and more people have dulled their consciences to sin, many churches do not teach that it is wrong, many parents do not properly form their children, and many young people stop going to church when they leave home.
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Kirane:
But doesn’t the Catholic Church allow people who were married to divorce and get an annulment a lot more now than before?
The grounds for annulment have not changed. More people petition the tribunal, which speaks to their lack of readiness for marriage, not a problem with the church.
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Kirane:
For example, there is a Senator from Massachusetts, Edward M. Kennedy, who it was rumored was having a lot of outside affairs. One of his girl friends died in a car accident when he was driving over a bridge and he let her stay there and drown in the water.
You have beaten this horse to death, and we have already repeatedly told you that you are wrong, wrong, wrong on the subject of annulments. You don’t even understand what they are.
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Kirane:
Still, the Church lets him leave his first wife and marry another one, even though the first wife needed some help with her alcohol problem because she could not cope with all the problems her husband was causing her.
The Church reviewed the documents presented to them regarding the validity of the first marriage and found it to be an invalid marriage.
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Kirane:
I thought it was supposed to be marriage for better or for worse, but I guess if you are a famous Catholic Irishman you can get remarried even if people think you have been publicly involved in some problems with other women.
Your lack of understanding about annulment is obvious. However, now that you have been corrected several times and also given the reference of a book on annulment to read (Annulment by Michael Smith Foster) what you are now doing is posting slanderous posts about the church. You have already been corrected and yet you continue with this falsehood.
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Kirane:
But why should people go through all that hassle and expense of getting “married” if it turns out that so many of these “marriages” have been found to be null and void by the Catholic Church for no good apparent reason.
Marriages are only found invalid if they have an impediment as specified in canon law. The fact that you think they are found invalid “for no apparent reason” does not make it so. You are ignorant of the facts, so please cease your speculation.
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Kirane:
What would be the difference between living together and living in a null and void marriage?
One is a sin, one is not.
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Kirane:
In either case you are not married in the eyes of the Catholic Church, but in the case of marriage, you have to spend a lot of money and waste time for the ceremony, but you find out later on after several years of marriage, that your spouse has been cheating on you and that you really weren’t married in the first place.
No, in the second case you are married in the eyes of the Church. All marriages are presumed valid. AND, you have also been told actions subsequent to the marriage (adultery) do not invalidate it.
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Kirane:
This is not an isolated case since I read somewhere that there are a lot of annulments these days and that Catholics get divorced and annulled in just about the same percentages as do Protestants and other people.
“Somewhere” is not a source. “Somewhere” is a mythological place where you can make up whatever you want and post it. It does not lend you any credibility.

Catholics may divorce at the same rate as non-Catholics.
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Kirane:
And I think it was said in the article that most Catholic marriages that are tested by a Catholic tribunal are found to be null and void anyway.
Many marriages are found to be valid, and many are not.

None of this has anything to do with living together, and committing mortal sin by doing so.
 
As her father, you can make your feelings known, but that is about all you can do about it. I raised 2 daughters who are now both married adults. My older daughter did live with her boyfriend for a year or 2 before they married. They have been happily married for almost 7 yrs now.

It’s not the end of the world.
 
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puzzleannie:
you might just present the basic facts of the situation. A woman who lives with a man without benefit of marriage is first of all demonstrating her low self esteem and has reduced herself to an object to satisfy one man’s sexual urges in a manner most convenient to himself. Such a man does not and cannot by definition have much regard for her as a person, or have much interest in a relationship on any other level.

Such a woman condones and lives her life by the secular values that reject family and children as a value, reject women’s roles, lives, biology and feminitity as valuable in and of themselves, and force women into conformity with the sexually-driven anti-morality of the consumer culture.

Such a woman virtually guarantees that both she and the man (I would not call such a man a gentleman) involved diminish or destroy their capability to form a strong lasting marriage bond, because they have diminished their ability for self-control and self-denial that is critical for creating a relationship that depends on placing the good of the other ahead of the good of oneself.

Such a woman increases her chances of spending a life in poverty because she increases her chances of out-of-wedlock children, which is a marker for poverty in women, and in their children. Since such a couple is almost certainly using artificial birth control, or God forbid abortion to delay or prevent children, she is exposing herself to all the physical and psychological damage these methods have been proven to cause.

She is moreover entering into a sexual relationship with someone who almost certainly has been or will be promiscuous, thereby assuring that she will be exposed to STD’s particulary HPV which is behind the astronomical rise in reproductive cancers of women.
I second this common sense post.

To add a few additional thoughts.

Offer this reality test to your daughter if she at all wants to clarify her boyfriend’s true love motives: If this boyfriend truly loves her, and is not guilty (which in actuality he is) of simply “wanting his cake and eat it too”, i.e., the priviliges and perks or married sexual life without the commitment clause “until death do us part” and the legal/financial responsibility if things go south, then have your daughter stake out that they move in together but refrain from any sexual contact/relations that are befitting of marriage. Let me guess his response – “Are you kidding? I’m out of here!”.

Has your daughter considered what type of man that she wants to marry? If it at all entails fidelity, saving one’s self for one’s one life long marriage partner, not a “let me try it on (living together/sexual intimacy) and wear it first then I will let you know if it fits well enough to my liking” pre-purchase usage, what values of her children’s father does she want to pass on to her children, and would she recommend this choice to their own children when they become of age, …if she thinks that you are imposing yourself, outmoded or being premature in judgment, then she is caught up in deluding herself.
 
Give her the stats by all means, but don’t count on them to convince. People always think they are the exception to the stats. Let her know of you love her but completely disapprove, don’t fund it so to speak by (for one of many examples) letting them sleep in the same room when they visit and pray, pray, pray.

Scott
 
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1ke:
Catholics may divorce at the same rate as non-Catholics.
.
But it is a difference. For a divoreced and remarried nonCatholic he gets married a second time. For the Catholic, more and more of them are getting annulled so they weren’t really married in the first place. Isn’t that a big difference between Catholics and nonCatholics, that Catholics were not really married in the first place since they get annulled. So if they see that in the case of the famous Catholic families like the Kennedys, that the first marriage is annulled after the husband is out driving around recklessly with his girl friend who ends up getting drowned late at night, then could some people be thinking, well, why go through the bother of getting married in the first place. I go through all that trouble and expense, and then after several years of marriage when at first everything was OK, my spouse is out drinking with his girl friends and then he says that there was no marriage in the first place since the Church annuls it. So this is not something I approve of, I am just saying that this thought could enter the mind of some people as to why they want to live together first instead of getting married like before. This is because before you did not have the Church handing out so many annullments, whereas now you have a lot of them. In other words more and more marriages are found by the Catholic Church to be null and void in the first place, and there was no marriage even though there was a ceremony where you had to pay a lot of money for it. So more and more people might think that they would be better off to live together for a while instead of running the risk of getting married but later on getting annulled and running into a lot of expenses to pay when there really was no marriage in the eyes of the Church. Aren’t a lot more people getting annullments these days?
 
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Kusnierek:
I’m sure this is a common question, but my daughter who is 26 wants to move in with her boyfriend. Of course she informed me and my responce was that she is an adult and can make her own decissions but that I wasn’t happy about the situation. I drew a blank and need some help.

My questions is what are some good responces to her that would discourage her from going thru with her plans.
Tell her she’s too old to play house?
Micki
 
Pray, pray and keep on praying for her. And while you are at it…remind her that your are praying for her.
 
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Kusnierek:
I’m sure this is a common question, but my daughter who is 26 wants to move in with her boyfriend. Of course she informed me and my responce was that she is an adult and can make her own decissions but that I wasn’t happy about the situation. I drew a blank and need some help.

My questions is what are some good responces to her that would discourage her from going thru with her plans.
I don’t know how effective this will be. I would look up any information I could on the fact that couples who cohabbitate and then marry have a higher divorce rate than those who don’t. It also actually discourages the guy from getting married. Why buy the cow if the milk is free, you know?

I don’t know if this is related at all, but my brothers friend had moved in with his girlfriend last summer. I asked him if he planned to marry her and he did, but not any time soon. He felt that marriage was just some celebration and he was completely content and happy where the relationship was. I asked her how she felt, and he did admit that she wanted to get married, have children etc a lot sooner than he wanted. He actually just wasn’t communicating to her that he had no intention of proposing soon. Then, this past Christmas, he bought her a kind of cheap ring to propose to her with but it was a promise ring just to tie her over for now because she kept bringing up the topic of marriage to him. This week I found out that she broke up with him.

Guys can get content in a situation pretty easily. If you live together before marriage, chances are he’s not going to propose anytime soon.

Does she want a guy who will fight for her heart, bend on one knee and propose to her and actually marry her? If she does, she can’t sell herself short. She can’t say “You can have all the benefits of a wife without the burdens of one.” In his mind, he’s getting a better deal than a marriage.

This site isn’t professional and the studies it goes by are a bit old, but the person who created it did make an effort to site all his data.

members.aol.com/cohabiting/rate.htm

Be careful in your search though. I also found some sites that were like “new study shows that divorce rate declines while cohabitation continuing to rise.” Such a study doesn’t make the needed connections and when I read the article the lower divorce rate appears to have more to do with the fact that its become very common even among non-Catholics to go through pre-marriage counciling before they marry. Also, the cohabitation numbers were including what is one the rise and that is couples who are engaged and while engaged buy the house and move in together before the actual wedding for economic reasons.

I’m not saying that is good behavior, but a good study would have to look at those who never cohabitate, those who cohabitate for only a couple a months while engaged and those who cohabitate as simply another step in the dating cycle before considering marriage.
 
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