Locating Vatican documents?

[Princess18]

I frequently see books or pages online that say something like “In (year date), Pope So-and-so declared (something).” Rarely do they have the name of the document it was declared in or the event that he said it at … probably because they’ve never seen it themselves. It’s just coming from a long line of people quoting each other without properly documenting the source.

The easy answer appears to be “the Vatican website”, but alas, it is not that user friendly. I’ve spent HOURS searching the site (including using an online page translator) and I’m still stuck.

The first one is address given to an audience of physicians by Pope Pius XII on January 8, 1956. The second is a decree from the Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office on July 28, 1847.

Anybody have any ideas on how I can find these? I suspect there is some sort of library here in the US that has copies of all this stuff (or maybe just hoping).

 

[Princess18]

Scratch the 1956 one. I think I may have found something suitable. Of course my husband finds it while I’m posting.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

I frequently see books or pages online that say something like “In (year date), Pope So-and-so declared (something).” Rarely do they have the name of the document it was declared in or the event that he said it at … probably because they’ve never seen it themselves. It’s just coming from a long line of people quoting each other without properly documenting the source.

The easy answer appears to be “the Vatican website”, but alas, it is not that user friendly. I’ve spent HOURS searching the site (including using an online page translator) and I’m still stuck.

The first one is address given to an audience of physicians by Pope Pius XII on January 8, 1956. The second is a decree from the Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office on July 28, 1847.

Anybody have any ideas on how I can find these? I suspect there is some sort of library here in the US that has copies of all this stuff (or maybe just hoping).

You are right to question those quotes without citations, that is almost always a sign the quote is misquoted or even purely fiction.

I also agree that the Vatican website is a pain to navigate, I try to avoid it for old documents.

A good place to look for past Papal documents is:
papalencyclicals.net/

Also, you might come across something called “Denzinger,” or “Denz.” that is a book by a Catholic guy named Henry Denzinger who basically took tonsof Church documents and put them in one big volume in chronological order they were written:
catecheticsonline.com/SourcesofDogma.php

Lastly, if you cannot find a quote, try posting it and asking around here. There is also NewAdvent.com which has a good search feature.

 

[Just_Lurking]

Denzinger 1653 mentions the 1847 ruling (see here):

. . Already some responses on this subject have been given by the Holy See to particular cases, in which those experiments are condemned as illicit which are arranged for a purpose not natural, not honest, and not attained by proper means; therefore, in similar cases it was decreed on Wednesday, April 21, 1841: “The use of magnetism, as it is explained, is not permitted.” Similarly, the Sacred Congregation decreed that certain books stubbornly disseminating errors of this kind should be condemned. But because, aside from particular cases, the use of magnetism in general had to be considered, by way of a rule therefore it was so stated on Wednesday, July 28, 1847: “When all error, soothsaying, explicit or implicit invocation of the demon is removed, the use of magnetism, i.e., the mere act of employing physical media otherwise licit, is not morally forbidden, provided it does not tend to an illicit end or to one that is in any manner evil. However, the application of principles and purely physical means to things and effects truly supernatural, in order to explain them physically, is nothing but deception altogether illicit and heretical.”

 

[Ignatius]

I frequently see books or pages online that say something like “In (year date), Pope So-and-so declared (something).” Rarely do they have the name of the document it was declared in or the event that he said it at … probably because they’ve never seen it themselves. It’s just coming from a long line of people quoting each other without properly documenting the source.

The easy answer appears to be “the Vatican website”, but alas, it is not that user friendly. I’ve spent HOURS searching the site (including using an online page translator) and I’m still stuck.

The first one is address given to an audience of physicians by Pope Pius XII on January 8, 1956. The second is a decree from the Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office on July 28, 1847.

Anybody have any ideas on how I can find these? I suspect there is some sort of library here in the US that has copies of all this stuff (or maybe just hoping).

An excellent resource is “The Faith of the early Fathers”. It is a three volume set by Jergens. Also, many of the books are available such as “The History of the Church” by Eusibius written in the 300’s and Augustines Confessions and City of God. Also There are books like “Four Witnesses” which have quotes and references to the documents (sometimes even line number within the document) that are referenced. Good scholarship in this area has been going on for two thousand years. Another good way to research this is through the web connections to the ancient universities.

 

[Princess18]

Denzinger 1653 mentions the 1847 ruling (see here):

So I guess it would be correct to cite Denzinger, but more correct to go back an find the original source.

I actually emailed the Vatican library and got a response directing me to another Vatican email addy. We’ll see what comes up.

THANK YOU so much for your replies! I’ll take more responses if anyone can think of any more!

 

[Princess18]

Oh and if anybody’s interested, the first one is found HERE. It’s in Spanish but you can use an online translator like Babelfish or Google and get a fairly understandable version.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I frequently see books or pages online that say something like “In (year date), Pope So-and-so declared (something).” Rarely do they have the name of the document it was declared in or the event that he said it at … probably because they’ve never seen it themselves. It’s just coming from a long line of people quoting each other without properly documenting the source.

The easy answer appears to be “the Vatican website”, but alas, it is not that user friendly. I’ve spent HOURS searching the site (including using an online page translator) and I’m still stuck.

The first one is address given to an audience of physicians by Pope Pius XII on January 8, 1956. The second is a decree from the Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office on July 28, 1847.

Anybody have any ideas on how I can find these? I suspect there is some sort of library here in the US that has copies of all this stuff (or maybe just hoping).

Depending on where this is quoted. Many non-Catholic or anti-Caholic material do not want you to look it up because it may not actually exist.

 

[Princess18]

I got a reply from the Vatican

In your e–mail you requested a copy of the decree of the Congregation of the Holy Office, dated 28 July 1847, concerning animal magnetism (hypnotism).
Herewith I enclose a full transcription of the above mentioned decree.

Sincerely yours,
The Archive’s Direction

Here is what was attached. I tried a translator for Italian and Latin and it still won’t completely translate. I’m sure it matches what’s in the Denzinger book, but can anyone help confirm that?

Suprema Sacra Romana Universale Inquisizione
Decreto di Feria IV, 28 Luglio 1847

Remoto omni errore, sortilegio, explicita, aut implicita daemonis invocatione usus magnetismi, nempe merus actus adhibendi media physica aliunde licita non est moraliter vetitus, dummodo non tendat ad finem illicitum, aut quomodolibet pravum. Applicatio autem principiorum et mediorum, pure physicorum ad res, et effectus vere supernaturales, ut physice explicentur, non est nisi deceptio omnino illecita, et haereticalis.

Hooray! Thanks.

 

[Just_Lurking]

Here is the original (non-translated) entry from Denzinger (see here):

DS 2824 (D 1653) Verum quia praeter particulares casus de usu magnetismi generatim agendum erat, hinc per modum regulae sic statutum fuit feria IV, 28. Iulii 1847: ‘Remoto omni errore, sortilegio, explicita aut implicita daemonis invocatione, usus magnetismi, nempe merus actus adhibendi media physica aliunde licita, non est moraliter vetitus, dummodo non tendat ad finem illicitum, aut quomodolibet pravum. Applicatio autem principiorum et mediorum pure physicorum ad res et effectus vere supernaturales, ut physice explicentur, non est nisi deceptio omnino illicita et haereticalis’.

 

[maize]

i think you have to have a special key and then the floor opens and you have to get past booby traps and albinos.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I got a reply from the Vatican

Here is what was attached. I tried a translator for Italian and Latin and it still won’t completely translate. I’m sure it matches what’s in the Denzinger book, but can anyone help confirm that?

Hooray! Thanks.

Why not just Email them back and ask for the English version?

 

[Princess18]

Here is the original (non-translated) entry from Denzinger (see here):

Score. Looks like a match to me. Thanks!

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I frequently see books or pages online that say something like “In (year date), Pope So-and-so declared (something).” Rarely do they have the name of the document it was declared in or the event that he said it at … probably because they’ve never seen it themselves. It’s just coming from a long line of people quoting each other without properly documenting the source.

The easy answer appears to be “the Vatican website”, but alas, it is not that user friendly. I’ve spent HOURS searching the site (including using an online page translator) and I’m still stuck.

The first one is address given to an audience of physicians by Pope Pius XII on January 8, 1956. The second is a decree from the Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office on July 28, 1847.

Anybody have any ideas on how I can find these? I suspect there is some sort of library here in the US that has copies of all this stuff (or maybe just hoping).

The vast majority of Vatican documents is not available on the Net - the only suggestion I can make is, that you could try searching on the text that is quoted (when it is quoted, which is not always the case).​

Webferret (which can be downloaded, free) is often helpful - have you tried searching with that ? For best results, quote the longer, significant words of a phrase: “the” is far too common to be much good, whereas “hold teach Catholic Faith comes from Apostles” is the sort of phrase that is likely to bring up plenty of hits for sites dealing with the Liturgy or the Creed. Finding what one wants is partly a matter of knowing what kind of thing to look for or expect.

Metasearcher sites should help - Ixquick is a very good one

You could also try

• Google Books
  Hope that helps