location of the Choir

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I wish we could use our choir loft every Sunday. The Chamber Choir uses it for our Masses on Christmas Eve, and from what I understand the sound is amazing from the loft. Unfortunately when it was built (70 years ago), elderly and handicapped parishoners were not kept in mind. The staircase to the loft is steep, narrow and winding, and even I have trouble with it in dress shoes. We have too many elderly and handicapped singers in our parish Adult Choir to use it for regular Sunday Masses.

Temporary solution- a small set of risers built behind the altar area. It wouldn’t be my first choice of location, but until we raise enough money to redesign the church interior (necessary after the 1968 “Spirit of Vatican II” reconfiguration which took out the communion rails and left us with a church-in-the-round :confused: ) we’re stuck. I think a proper choir area was drawn into the new plans.
 
I like the choir loft, too. Sounds like angels singing from Heaven (that is, if your choir is any good 😃 ). Something ethereal about not being able to see them.
 
I have been gently notified by PM that I may have inadvertently injured the feeling of those who so generously contribute their time and talent in music ministry. If that is the case, I humbly apologize, and hope they will be an example to all of use to acknowledge our gifts, thank God for them, and share them in service to our Church and to the liturgy.
 
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SeekerJen:
We have too many elderly and handicapped singers in our parish Adult Choir to use it for regular Sunday Masses.
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ADA requirements was one of the number one reasons we rejected building a loft in the near future. We simple do not have the funds for an elevator.
 
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pnewton:
ADA requirements was one of the number one reasons we rejected building a loft in the near future. We simple do not have the funds for an elevator.
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Yeah. Too bad such requirements didn’t exist in 1929 (when our church was built). A lot of the current improvements that our parish is planning involve simply making the buildings handicap-accessible.
 
My church has a choir loft but it has not been used for that for many years. We sit in the sanctuary to the right of the priest. I would like to go back to the loft but the pastor says “no”. Even though we are praying the Mass with the people, we still have choir business to conduct and I think it would be better to do it out of sight.

Otherwise, I like the idea of sitting in the front near the sanctuary, facing the altar. You can always have a couple of mikes so the sound carries.
 
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SeekerJen:
Yeah. Too bad such requirements didn’t exist in 1929 (when our church was built). A lot of the current improvements that our parish is planning involve simply making the buildings handicap-accessible.
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But a choir loft is only for the organ and choir, not for the congregation, so does the ADA really apply here?
 
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JimG:
But a choir loft is only for the organ and choir, not for the congregation, so does the ADA really apply here?
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Yes it does. It prohibits any person with the qualifications to sing at mass from joining the choir by limiting their access. It’s the major reason parishes are only sending the organist and a handful of musicians to the choir loft anymore. It even gets tricky there because you have to make sure that if there’s a qualified musician who’s incapable of climbing the stairs that the rest of the musicians will come down to the main floor. It’s all about the “reasonable accomodation” clause.
 
*in the Choir loft!!! *
In our parish everyone is down front w/ their electric guitars and a cantor who displays real anger toward us for not singing… He has a wonderful voice he sounds like Pavarotti, but w/ the those guitars…something is really being lost here… :banghead:
I feel like I’m in kindergarten by the way he treats the congregation:twocents:
 
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pnewton:
ADA requirements was one of the number one reasons we rejected building a loft in the near future. We simple do not have the funds for an elevator.
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ADA applies to church? I guess I keep forgetting that the “separation of church and state” is only to be applied when we are voting on moral issues.:banghead:
 
ADA applies to everything. They even have wheelchair ramps on the International Space Station. (just kidding)

I would not like to think that someone who was otherwise qualified to sing in the choir could not because of an accessability issue, though. It is just one more issue to consider when deciding where to place a choir.
 
The A.D.A. laws do not apply to churches, all wheelchair access to church buildings is voluntary. While there has been some confusion about this the laws are very clear when you read them. You can read the laws at the website www.ada.gov , at one time I thought it was mandatory too, but my friends in the P.V.A.(Paralized Veterans of America) cleared it up for me. There are exceptions of course, but ordinary daily access to the church buildings is not mandatory.

Linda H.

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Linda,

You started me reading and I think you are correct. I was reflecting what our diocesan advisor told us. It is not a federal standard, but a Texas Access Regulations that were of concern and from what I could tell it is a matter of case law that applies these regulations to churches. (Coalition of Texans with Disabilities v. Texas Dept. of Licensing & Regulation 1999 WL816734)
 
ADA does apply to the choir if they’re paid. At that point they’re employees and they have to have equal access to their workplace or a reasonable accomodation.
 
The choir(folk band) was to the right of the Priest closer to the altar then I’d seen before, separate from everyone else and facing the people. I found this distracting as it seemed like the choir was there to perform…
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Check out a book titled Ugly as Sin by Michael S. Rose (published by Sophia Institute). He has done some architectural research, and indeed having the music coming from behind and above the worshippers was significant. Having them face the people is part of the new pattern of making the mass into a celebration, and immanentizing the experience of it. Rose’s book includes information about architects who know how to build traditional churches, in case you are ever in a postition to influence these decisions.
I have loved, O Lord, the beauty of thy house;
and the place where thy glory dwelleth. Psalm 25:8 *
 
loyola rambler:
ADA does apply to the choir if they’re paid. At that point they’re employees and they have to have equal access to their workplace or a reasonable accomodation.
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A paid choir in church, that’s a new one on me :confused:, but that does change a few things, then again maybe not, it can depend on the number of employees there are. There are different rules for employers and for public accomodations, and churches don’t normally come under the public accomodations rules. I’m willing to bet that 99% of the Catholic Churches do not have paid choirs. I know many larger parishes do have paid music directors, but for the most part the choirs are volunteers and there in don’t come under the ADA laws. As to local and state access laws, that is a horse of a different color, I can only suggest you look into them where ever you live.
Linda H.
 
Linda H.:
A paid choir in church, that’s a new one on me :confused:, but that does change a few things, then again maybe not, it can depend on the number of employees there are. There are different rules for employers and for public accomodations, and churches don’t normally come under the public accomodations rules. I’m willing to bet that 99% of the Catholic Churches do not have paid choirs. I know many larger parishes do have paid music directors, but for the most part the choirs are volunteers and there in don’t come under the ADA laws. As to local and state access laws, that is a horse of a different color, I can only suggest you look into them where ever you live.
Linda H.
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Don’t put too much money on that bet. Out of over 30 parishes that I’ve belonged to, only one didn’t have professional singers or choir members who received at least $600/year in stipends and had to get 1099’s. That makes them statutory employees at the very least. Your 90% is grossly overblown. It’s probably closer to 25%.
 
loyola rambler:
. Out of over 30 parishes that I’ve belonged to, only one didn’t have professional singers or choir members who received at least $600/year in stipends and had to get 1099’s. .
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WOW! I have never even heard of professional choir members, much less belonged to a church that had them.
 
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JimG:
But a choir loft is only for the organ and choir, not for the congregation, so does the ADA really apply here?
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Yes- or if not, good common sense and Christian charity should… We have two choir members with walkers, three with canes, and one in a wheelchair, and half of the choir is over 60. No one would dream of telling any of them that they couldn’t participate because of their infirmities.
 
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