Locked Up for Being Poor

[mikekle]

Definitely National.

www.cca.com

"Private prison companies, however, essentially admit that their business model depends on locking up more and more people. For example, in a 2010 Annual Report filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission, Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) stated: “The demand for our facilities and services could be adversely affected by . . . leniency in conviction or parole standards and sentencing practices . . . .” As incarceration rates skyrocket, the private prison industry expands at exponential rates, holding ever more people in its prisons and jails, and generating massive profits. " aclu.org/prisoners-rights/private-prisons

My God, how can they be getting away with this?!! This basically says clearly, in black and white, that law enforcement WILL consider this factor when out enforcing laws, and be out specifically looking to arrest people for anything and everything!!! How is this not criminal? LOL

I am really getting to the point of despising the US.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

My God, how can they be getting away with this?!! This basically says clearly, in black and white, that law enforcement WILL consider this factor when out enforcing laws, and be out specifically looking to arrest people for anything and everything!!! How is this not criminal? LOL

I am really getting to the point of despising the US.

It does all seem a bit Orwellian.

 

[GaryTaylor]

It does all seem a bit Orwellian.

This is an astonishing fact…

One in every four people that is incarcerated worldwide is held captive in a United States jail. How is it that a country with only 5% of the world’s population has 25% of all the inmates? Simple: prisoners are source of revenue for private companies, so the demand for incarcerating them is especially high.

To date the problem has only grown.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Yes, but how long have these fines/ punishments, been in place? People are still committing these violations today, so that proves the laws are not effective and probably never were, usually when something is found to be ineffective, something different is tried, after all, the purpose of laws is to stop or reduce the number of people who offend.

We are far overdue to try something new, anyone can see that the these fines have not stopped or even reduced the number of people who violate these laws.

The prospect of a fine for speeding certainly deters me. And I don’t think I’m alone in that.

What you’re saying is an argument for not punishing any crime. Why prosecute murder because after all these years of doing so, murders are still committed?

Sometimes deterrents work, and sometimes they don’t. Do you have any idea how many people would speed if there was no punishment for doing it?

What is your method of deterrent?

 

[Ridgerunner]

My God, how can they be getting away with this?!! This basically says clearly, in black and white, that law enforcement WILL consider this factor when out enforcing laws, and be out specifically looking to arrest people for anything and everything!!! How is this not criminal? LOL

I am really getting to the point of despising the US.

Despising the U.S. sure came easy.

There is more than one issue here. First, is it appropriate to have private contractors for prisons/jails at all? Second, should they be paid on the basis of “head count” (which, we assume encourages incarceration) or on some basis that gives no incentive to over-incarcerate? Third, do civil authorities arrest and jail people in order to profit?

I don’t think anyone has yet made a case against private contractors per se.

I do think there may be a valid argument against paying on a “head count” basis. If private contractors are paid on that basis (and no one has yet established it here) and if somehow the authorities profit from that (which no one has established) there is wrong in that way of doing things.

I do not believe civil authorities jail and arrest people in order to profit. Jailing people is, for the most part, a money-losing proposition from their standpoint. Fining people for breaking the law CAN be profitable. Jailing people, by and large, isn’t.

High incarceration rates in the U.S. might reflect nothing but the following:

1. Most crimes are committed by males between the ages of 18 and 35. The more of them there are in a population, the higher is the crime rate. A country with a younger population will always have a higher crime rate than with an older one, all other things being equal. Look, for instance, at the murder rate and median ages of people in Mexico and the U.S. The median age in Mexico is much lower and the murder rate much higher.
2. Incarceration rates might reflect not much more, additionally, than the efficiency of law enforcement and the justice system in any given country. The hazards of living in Mexico from criminal activity are vastly higher than living in the U.S., but the U.S. has a higher incarceration rate. That might simply reflect ineffectiveness of law enforcement and judicial corruption in Mexico.
3. About 26% of the incarcerations in the U.S. are of illegal aliens. Were they criminals before they came here? Probably. When a country does not control immigration and is fairly prosperous, it is a magnet for criminals.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Most traffic violations are more about raising revenue than about safety. I’d propose cities tax their citizens sufficient to meet municipal needs and dispense with this back door taxation that mainly impacts the poor.

No, that’s not what I asked. Maybe I didn’t word it well. What I intended to ask was what you would do, instead of imposing fines, to ensure compliance with traffic laws.

 

[mikekle]

The prospect of a fine for speeding certainly deters me. And I don’t think I’m alone in that.

What you’re saying is an argument for not punishing any crime. Why prosecute murder because after all these years of doing so, murders are still committed?

Sometimes deterrents work, and sometimes they don’t. Do you have any idea how many people would speed if there was no punishment for doing it?

What is your method of deterrent?

Im positive there are much smarter people out there than me, so I have no doubt someone could come up with something innovative that would work better than our current fine system when it comes to traffic laws/ offenses.

More I think about this though, why should there really be any punishment for not obeying traffic laws? Driving is about common sense…a long line of cars going down a road, and each one of them having to stop at a stop sign, when there is no other cars on the intersecting rd, why should they all stop? I can understand stopping to let another car go, but many times, at stop signs,. there is no other car there…again, its about common sense.

I cant count the number of times Ive been driving on the main rd and come to a red light, but I noticed there was not one single car on the intersecting street…so all these cars on the main rd have to stop for NO reason at all…this is not common sense.

Why not just make sure every driver know they must use basic common sense when driving, and if they do break some kind of traffic law, one point will be taken off, eventually leading up the loss of ones license…this is good enough in itself, no need for a fine system.

Non-traffic crime, is another animal, sure there are just some people who NEED to be in jail, they cant live in a regular society.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Im positive there are much smarter people out there than me, so I have no doubt someone could come up with something innovative that would work better than our current fine system when it comes to traffic laws/ offenses.

More I think about this though, why should there really be any punishment for not obeying traffic laws? Driving is about common sense…a long line of cars going down a road, and each one of them having to stop at a stop sign, when there is no other cars on the intersecting rd, why should they all stop? I can understand stopping to let another car go, but many times, at stop signs,. there is no other car there…again, its about common sense.

.

In the absence of a better idea, then perhaps we should simply continue with the fines.

Driving might well be about common sense, but many are the people who do not exercise it. Traffic laws exist for a reason. There is no justification whatever for me to, say, drive 100 miles an hour through the center of a town, and very good reasons why i shouldn’t. Are there people who will do that? Yes, as anyone knows who has been driving the speed limit only to be passed as if he was standing still. And when one reads about traffic accidents, there is almost always some kind of violation involved that contributed to it.

 

[styrgwillidar]

This has been an on-going issue.

Violent crimes are down overall …

Which may in fact be related to the incarceration of repeat offenders? California just reversed some of the provisions of the three-strikes law and the result thus far has been an increase in crime.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I don’t think there is much disagreement that fines are a necessary means to enforce laws. But the original subject of this thread was what happened to someone who was unable to pay his fine and was locked up.

I don’t recall if bankruptcy was discussed, but what about it? What role can and should normal bankruptcy play in such a case? Or is it like student loan debt, which cannot be discharged in bankruptcy?

 

[GaryTaylor]

GaryTaylor;12784186:

This has been an on-going issue.

Violent crimes are down overall …

Which may in fact be related to the incarceration of repeat offenders? California just reversed some of the provisions of the three-strikes law and the result thus far has been an increase in crime.

Your right about the three strike situation as thats here also. But I think there’s a lack of distinction in law as to persistent offender and career criminal. I can’t qualify how it helps but what is does is not restrict the DA to sentence perhaps someone who it shouldn’t apply to. The other way it can be decided by the DA. So I don’t know that stats would indicate much.

The drug laws with crime here make no distinctions that I know of. Crime felony classification is to seriousness of offense. But a organized crime group may take on further legal implications regardless of which vice it is, gang conspiracy to commit on-going felonies against the state.